2019 Toyota Supra Prototype Reveals Production Intent Design/Parts

Who do you think is behind the wheel of the Supra?

  • White guy

    Votes: 13 36.1%
  • Asian guy

    Votes: 23 63.9%

  • Total voters
    36

Sunspot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2017
Threads
1
Messages
143
Reaction score
241
Location
California
Car(s)
I like big rear ends and I cannot lie.
well there have been some indirect cases like how the charger/challenger use the old shared mercedes platform and they have had adequate success..
I did not know this , thanks.
Sponsored

 
  • Like
Reactions: HKz

HKz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2016
Threads
0
Messages
787
Reaction score
1,251
Location
Arizona
Car(s)
FRS
Brand affinity is very strong with certain car buyers. Especially the cars at the expensive end. For example: look at a Ferrari. Terrible paint. Terrible dealership practices. Terrible reliability. Etc. Etc. and yet ...... people with $$$$ line up to buy these cars. Same for Range Rovers. Same for expensive German sedans. No doubt that Toyota makes a better, more reliable product than these other marques. But ..... at the end of the day ...certain people who value passion, uniqueness, niche type cars, enthusiasts, track ready, sportscar, horsepower when you need it, etc. etc. are buying on EMOTION. Lets be honest. Toyota has rarely been about emotion. Therefore.... I agree that unless you are a lifelong TOYOTA fanboy .... who is going to buy a GS-F over the other brands?

Back to the Supra. Pricing is going to be as important as chassis/ engine sharing, etc. It's all about pricing and which category of cars it competes with. Like I said earlier ..... it needs to be in the 50-60K arena.
yes I agree with you, brand affinity is quite important but I think that is more so for the 6 figure class and to be fair much of that is heavily due to exclusivity..the rich sure do like their bespoke purchases...remember, Lexus was able to sell all 500 LFA copies which should be indicative. GS F/M5 are still within the realms of most mere mortals. In the US the GS sells roughly as many as the A6 so clearly there are some buyers who are either bored with the Germans (in either styling or current engine choices) and those that are conscious about reliability with more disposable income, they are out there.
 

gymratter

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2014
Threads
15
Messages
1,046
Reaction score
1,162
Location
TX
Car(s)
Silver Spur & F-150
how are you measuring success? only if they sell the most in the class? from everything I've seen and read the GS F has been well received, even more so than the RC F..4.5 sec 0-60 for an all motor lux sedan is quite adequate especially for the crowd that would even be interested in picking up a Lexus.. lol funny how you use "cheaper" as a reason to not get a GS F while you list the $10 K premium before accessories & taxes between it and the m5..performance and msrp wise the GS F fits well between the M3 and M5. no need to diss toyota's performance cred, they have sold arguably the widest selection and range of performance cars especially compared to all the other economy brands..
its not a bad car. but Lexus should have really just slap on a GS500 badge on and sell it for $65k. my main point was really about value. its cheaper than the M5 so you would think people would be lining up left and right. do you realize no one is touching this thing at or near MSRP. over on clublexus, members are discussing how Lexus stealership are taking $20k off of the MSRP in order to move this thing off the lot. of course sales aren't everything, but cars need to sell. remember what happened to MR2, MK4 & etc?

when Lexus was launch it offered good cars for good value. one of my 1st cars was a SC400, it was so much less than the 840ci. IMO the GSF doesnt really offer much value. sadly these days Toyota does not listen to buyers, but instead gives buyers what they thinks buyers should have. this is well noting over at clublexus. for example Lexus USA has been asking for a 3rd row RX for years now because buyers were asking for one. Lexus Japan's responds, no... after they release a car they seem to not care much for updates. one example i can think of is the SC430. people were turned off by the high price tag. than why not release a lower base SC350 with the 2GR. mid cycle updates the competition gave the 6er and SL an engine upgrade. why didnt Lexus give the SC the LS460's 1UR? now with the LC, another missed opportunity IMO. why is the slower and heavier LC500h priced higher? and the new TTV6 sounds good, why not use it in the LC as well? im not trying to bash on Toyota, i actually really like their products from the 90s. to me its more constructive criticism if anything. and to their credit i would say Lexus is in a way better place when compared to other luxury japanese brands, but at the same time they are a little behind the Germans.

now moving back on topic. with the Z & Supra mash up my expectations are high. with Toyota's cash and BMW's R&D they better give us something good. like others have said on thread, if not there are tons of other cars out there to pick from.

remember, Lexus was able to sell all 500 LFA copies which should be indicative. In the US the GS sells roughly as many as the A6 so clearly there are some buyers who are either bored with the Germans (in either styling or current engine choices) and those that are conscious about reliability with more disposable income, they are out there.
yes, but it took them a little time to do so. a lot of the headlines about the LFA being all spoken for was a little misleading. the A6 has always been meh to me, but E and 5er kills the GS when it comes to sales.
 
Last edited:

jm6k

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2016
Threads
1
Messages
404
Reaction score
735
Location
places
Car(s)
cars
now with the LC, another missed opportunity IMO. why is the slower and heavier LC500h priced higher?
I haven't looked into them that much, but I was actually surprised to see the 0-60 is only .3 slower in the h with over 100hp less. The hybrid doesn't seem to look as good with the smaller wheels so you're losing some style just to get 35mpg, which I guess isn't bad for a car that size. Still, it seems like when the LS460Lh was an option you got everything the 460L had plus the added hybrid benefits.... you also paid substantially more than the LC/LCh difference though too.
 

gymratter

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2014
Threads
15
Messages
1,046
Reaction score
1,162
Location
TX
Car(s)
Silver Spur & F-150
I haven't looked into them that much, but I was actually surprised to see the 0-60 is only .3 slower in the h with over 100hp less. The hybrid doesn't seem to look as good with the smaller wheels so you're losing some style just to get 35mpg, which I guess isn't bad for a car that size. Still, it seems like when the LS460Lh was an option you got everything the 460L had plus the added hybrid benefits.... you also paid substantially more than the LC/LCh difference though too.
.3 second differences is actually quite impressive for a less powerful heavier trim level. but at the same time the reviews for the LC500h have been lackluster. yes, either way its a better deal or better price gap when compared to the LS vs LS hybrid.
 
Last edited:

HKz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2016
Threads
0
Messages
787
Reaction score
1,251
Location
Arizona
Car(s)
FRS
its not a bad car. but Lexus should have really just slap on a GS500 badge on and sell it for $65k. my main point was really about value. its cheaper than the M5 so you would think people would be lining up left and right. do you realize no one is touching this thing at or near MSRP. over on clublexus, members are discussing how Lexus stealership are taking $20k off of the MSRP in order to move this thing off the lot. of course sales aren't everything, but cars need to sell. remember what happened to MR2, MK4 & etc?

when Lexus was launch it offered good cars for good value. one of my 1st cars was a SC400, it was so much less than the 840ci. IMO the GSF doesnt really offer much value. sadly these days Toyota does not listen to buyers, but instead gives buyers what they thinks buyers should have. this is well noting over at clublexus. for example Lexus USA has been asking for a 3rd row RX for years now because buyers were asking for one. Lexus Japan's responds, no... after they release a car they seem to not care much for updates. one example i can think of is the SC430. people were turned off by the high price tag. than why not release a lower base SC350 with the 2GR. mid cycle updates the competition gave the 6er and SL an engine upgrade. why didnt Lexus give the SC the LS460's 1UR? now with the LC, another missed opportunity IMO. why is the slower and heavier LC500h priced higher? and the new TTV6 sounds good, why not use it in the LC as well? im not trying to bash on Toyota, i actually really like their products from the 90s. to me its more constructive criticism if anything. and to their credit i would say Lexus is in a way better place when compared to other luxury japanese brands, but at the same time they are a little behind the Germans.

now moving back on topic. with the Z & Supra mash up my expectations are high. with Toyota's cash and BMW's R&D they better give us something good. like others have said on thread, if not there are tons of other cars other there to pick from.



yes, but it took them a little time to do so. a lot of the headlines about the LFA being all spoken for was a little misleading. the A6 has always been meh to me, but E and 5er kills the GS when it comes to sales.
Bring up the sales figures..you make it sound as though the 5 series sells a boatload lol, these are still very limited sales compared to most any economy car sales, it is splitting hairs to complain they aren't selling enough as there is only a very limited number of buyers for those luxury segments. The MR2 and MK4 Supra (and Celica) died for multiple reasons but after all they still got the green light to go through multiple generations...though their demise is probably part of the reason that led Toyota to create Scion as their Lexus success hinted that branding unfortunately dictates many, if not most, buyers..

The 90s are a different time, incomparable to now...Lexus had room back then to make up ground to the Germans who in my eyes were the most complacent during that era. When the Lexus LS first came out it was priced very similarly to the 7 series and S class but what happened? In order to avoid competing, Mercedes and BMW have kept going up market and now the LS stands at $70 K whereas the 7 series and S class are in the $80 and $90 K range now..plus, during the 90s people were happy with luxury cars not trying to be super cars but ever since Lexus came out the Germans have further tried to elevate their luxury models to have more and more pointless power, more electronics, more gimmicks, etc...things that don't necessarily translate to being more luxurious but the definition of luxury has changed for many people and German fans like the exclusivity that those sort of features add I guess.

What sort of value are you looking for? It sounds like you are really just complaining about performance per dollar which isn't a fair assessment. You have to look at the entire picture to understand value whether it is build quality, reliability, longevity, safety features/score, power, handling, interior materials, etc.. When you look at the whole picture you realize the Germans are still nickel and diming people for some features that are standard for other brands (like a backup camera!) and the value proposition isn't what you think it is. Perhaps understand business to get why a company doesn't just jump the gun for every request made...they would be broke if they listened to consumers because the ones that speak out are a very small minority...for example, enthusiasts love to complain about the recent lack of manual trans options but yet barely anyone buys them especially in the US...and I hope you realize most every dealership right now is struggling to sell their sedans whether it is Lexus, BMW or Mercedes...5 series US sales dropped by 27% between 2015-2016 and were the lowest since 1997...not a good time for non-SUV/trucks.

By the way, when the 2nd generation SC came out in 2001 the 2GR was not even an available engine...it wasn't until the 2nd generation IS came out in 2005 that they upgraded the 2GR with D-4S. Plus, 2000-2010 were some uncertain times..the middle east, the recession, etc..Toyota wasn't taking many chances with performance models during those years so it makes sense why they wouldn't want to add a 2nd engine choice during the middle of the SC430's generation. As for the LC500h you clearly don't live in a market where you are taxed for displacement or number of cylinders or have ridiculous gas prices so it doesn't really apply to people that live in the US...why else you think they sell the Lexus IS with a hybrid in Europe and not in the US? But even so I would think one can understand the 500h's powertrain is more advanced than that of the V8 without compromising too much performance, seems like a good alternative to me.

And yes, the LFA wasn't sold out right away, but for their first super car on a brand that was associated with mainly senior citizens the LFA was a commendable success. Regardless, Lexus tries to play the luxury game a little differently from the Germans because I think trying to compete directly would be a waste of money for them as they can't shed their brand image to grab those diehard fans so they use their strengths to grab the other type of crowd...at the end of the day, the luxury segment is the main line of business BMW and Mercedes compete in whereas for Lexus and Audi it is more about supplementing their respective economy brands..
 
Last edited:

gymratter

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2014
Threads
15
Messages
1,046
Reaction score
1,162
Location
TX
Car(s)
Silver Spur & F-150
Bring up the sales figures..you make it sound as though the 5 series sells a boatload lol, these are still very limited sales compared to most any economy car sales, it is splitting hairs to complain they aren't selling enough as there is only a very limited number of buyers for those luxury segments. The MR2 and MK4 Supra (and Celica) died for multiple reasons and yet they still got the green light to go through multiple generations though their demise is probably part of the reason that led Toyota to create Scion as their Lexus success hinted that the branding unfortunately dictates many buyers..
2016
E class: 50,896
5 series: 32,408
GS: 14,878

i dont think i ever said BMW sold a boatload of the 5. but yeah lets look at sales. being outsold 2:1 is pretty bad IMO. in the end of the day if it doesnt sell it will most likely be canned. there are even rumors of Toyota killing off the GS at the end of its life cycle. yeah the MK4 had other factors going against it. ok lets look at the 3rd gen MR2. it would have probably sold better if they also had an auto tranny and fixed hardtop option. it also didnt help that Toyota hardly even marketed it. to me it just seems Toyota has a history of releasing a car and not doing much too it. than when sales fall flat they blame it on xzy and kills it. whereas the German keep pushing the boundaries.

The 90s are a different time, incomparable to now...Lexus had room back then to make up ground to the Germans who in my eyes were the most complacent during that era. When the Lexus LS first came out it was priced very similarly to the 7 series and S class but what happened? In order to avoid competing, Mercedes and BMWs have kept going up market and now the LS stands at $70 K whereas the 7 series and S class are in the $80 and $90 K range now..plus, during the 90s people were happy with luxury cars not trying to be super cars but ever since Lexus came out the Germans have further tried to elevate their luxury models to have more and more pointless power, more electronics, more gimmicks, etc...things that don't necessarily translate to being more luxurious but the definition of luxury has changed for many people and German fans like the exclusivity that those sort of features add I guess.
hey man no arguments here. that was probably the best era for Lexus IMO. i recall the GS430 was the fastest production sedan in the world at the time and the original LS sent the Germans back to the drawing boards. im not sure where you are getting your numbers from but the LS400 was priced at $44k was $10k less than the 740i at $54k. i dont really care for the stupid gimmicks that are found in some of their new models like with the new G11. to me it is more about the drivetrain than anything, and i think most people here would agree that Lexus is falling behind when it comes to turbo charge engines. almost everyone has switched to some form of forced induction while Lexus still mainly does their NA thing. with that said i do give them credit with the TTV6 from the new LS and the 8AR. but as a whole line up, they really do need to catch up.

What sort of value are you looking for? It sounds like you are really just complaining about performance per dollar which isn't a fair assessment. You have to look at the entire picture to understand value whether it is build quality, reliability, longevity, safety features/score, power, handling, interior materials, etc.. When you look at the whole picture you realize the Germans are still nickel and diming people for some features that are standard for other brands (like a backup camera!) and the value proposition isn't what you think it is. Perhaps understand business to get why a company doesn't just jump the gun for every request made...they would be broke if they listened to consumers because the ones that speak out are a very small minority...and I hope you realize most every dealership right now is struggling to sell their sedans whether it is Lexus, BMW or Mercedes...not a good time for non-SUV/trucks.
backup camera will soon be mandatory on all cars sold in the US anyways :p yes lets do talk about interior materials. kinda sucks to buy a Lexus to only have the dash crack and melt all over the place and still being on a waiting list for 3 years to get it repaired. the newer BMWs are a lot more reliable than the Bangle era models. i do understand how BMW works once you start adding on the extra goodies. but still, take last year's 550i xdrive at $68k and add on some options and it would still be faster and cheaper than the $84k GS-F.

By the way, when the 2nd generation SC came out in 2001 the 2GR was not even an available engine...it wasn't until the 2nd generation IS came out in 2005 that they upgraded the 2GR with D-4S. Plus, 2000-2010 were some uncertain times..the middle east, the recession, etc..Toyota wasn't taking many chances with performance models during those years so it makes sense why they wouldn't want to add a 2nd engine choice during the middle of the SC430's generation. As for the LC500h you clearly don't live in a market where you are taxed for displacement or number of cylinders or have ridiculous gas prices so it doesn't really apply to people that live in the US...but even so I would think one can understand the 500h's powertrain is more advanced than that of the V8 without compromising too much performance, seems like a good alternative to me.
youre right, but by that time the SC still wasnt even at it's half life span yet. the recession didn't hit until 2008. yeah gas prices were crazy. so you would think a 6 cylinder SC would have made more sense. especially when we see that around 80%+ of the GS being sold are the 6 cylinder model. nope i live in the US. but again, there is the TTV6, why not use it for the LC? you are right again, one would think a updated V6 hybrid is more advance than an almost decade old retune NA 2UR that they keep recycling into every model. when it comes down to it i just dont think the 500h will be a hit. i have a feeling it will be a flop like the LS600h.

And yes, the LFA wasn't sold out right away, but for their first super car on a brand that was associated with mainly senior citizens the LFA was a commendable success. Regardless, Lexus tries to play the luxury game a little differently from the Germans because I think trying to compete directly would be a waste of money for them as they can't shed their brand image to grab those diehard fans so they use their strengths to grab the other type of crowd...at the end of the day, the luxury segment is the main line of business BMW and Mercedes are in whereas for Lexus and Audi it is more about supplementing their respective economy brands..
i actually agreed with most of your points here. im just pointing out the fact how some people makes it sound like the LFA sold out over night.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: HKz

Sun Devil

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2017
Threads
2
Messages
142
Reaction score
216
Location
Scottsdale, Arizona
Car(s)
current: 2016 Audi A7 . Past: 996TT,997cab, 997TT, R8 V10, 13 FR-S
Not sure I group Audi with Lexus. But then again I happen to like Audis. If anything .... I believe BMW has lost a step to Audi. Merc lost it's way when they started to offer economy C-class, CLA, etc cars.
 

Supra93

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Threads
82
Messages
2,486
Reaction score
4,339
Location
TX
Car(s)
Supra & RX7
Wow has this thread gone off topic. I don't even care who's motor is used anymore. I'm sure it won't be long until 2JZ swaps are done.

15727113_1197022973713357_12367622209010-1.jpg


Best M5 in my opinion ;)

 

Supraman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2014
Threads
3
Messages
542
Reaction score
772
Location
FL
Car(s)
.
I think we can all agree Toyota should play it safe and offer a cheaper additional option: A complete shell with no engine just in case. Just make sure the engine wiring harness is compatible with a 2JZ ;)
 

HKz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2016
Threads
0
Messages
787
Reaction score
1,251
Location
Arizona
Car(s)
FRS
Not sure I group Audi with Lexus. But then again I happen to like Audis. If anything .... I believe BMW has lost a step to Audi. Merc lost it's way when they started to offer economy C-class, CLA, etc cars.
the similarity is just how the luxury arm trickles down to their economy variants whereas Mercedes/BMW are solely focused on the upper markets which you have to think impacts their engineering decisions for better or worse. Yes C-Class/CLA are blurring the line between economy and luxury but they still aren't selling Civics..
 

Leeky

Active Member
Joined
May 6, 2017
Threads
0
Messages
34
Reaction score
59
Location
England UK
Car(s)
Toyota GT86 SemiAuto, Mercedes-Benz ML55, Toyota Aygo X-Press X-Drive
Vehicle Showcase
1
Hey guys,

Has anyone picked up on this yet? A new news article that surfaced yesterday.

https://www.opptrends.com/2018-toyota-supra-price-release-date/

If im not mistaken, we havent seen these particular pics before?

Also according to this article the new Supra will get "Toyota’s first dual-clutch transmission"?
 
Last edited:

Leeky

Active Member
Joined
May 6, 2017
Threads
0
Messages
34
Reaction score
59
Location
England UK
Car(s)
Toyota GT86 SemiAuto, Mercedes-Benz ML55, Toyota Aygo X-Press X-Drive
Vehicle Showcase
1
I see, so the pics arent new. But what about the gearbox rumour? Has this been mentioned before?

Im not aware of any Toyota specific Dual Clutch transmission. So I can only assume its the same ZF box that BMW use.

If you check out the interior pictures from this thread you can see clearly its an automatic by the typical BMW DCT shifter

http://www.supramkv.com/threads/2019-supra-transmission-manual-dual-clutch-auto.370/
 
Last edited:
 




Top