Why I Think Everyone is Wrong About the MKV (Video)

tfoxyr

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I think what is on everyones mind is will the supra have some kind of hybridisation? This was one of the first things that was rumored about the powertrain of the car. As for the engines , i believe we all hoped for 2 turbos and maybe a toyota 6 , but i think we will enjoy the car if it has a satisfying amount of power , handling and reliability even if the engines are bmw , after all bmw engines are actually making their cars pretty fast.
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I think what is on everyones mind is will the supra have some kind of hybridisation? This was one of the first things that was rumored about the powertrain of the car. As for the engines , i believe we all hoped for 2 turbos and maybe a toyota 6 , but i think we will enjoy the car if it has a satisfying amount of power , handling and reliability even if the engines are bmw , after all bmw engines are actually making their cars pretty fast.
a hybrid is just as unlikely as the supra getting the tt v6..and no thanks to the weight disadvantage even with a "mild" hybrid. plus most folks on here have agreed since there was no sticker on the supra when being tested at the nring it pretty much confirmed this..
 

madfast

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let's think about this logically. the most likely scenario, imo, is the use of the B58 block (closed deck ftw) in both cars. this just makes too much sense. from engine mounts to transmissions, too much would have to change if you change the block... the head? this is where things get interesting.

BMW uses valvetronic. this is their marquee technology. their "special sauce". i doubt they want toyota to use it and for their technology to be serviced at toyota dealers...

toyota uses integrated exhaust manifold, D-4S or D-4ST (dual injectors), and VVT-iE or VVT-iW (otto & atkinson cycle). toyota has their own recipe for "special sauce" and it's also all in the head.

therefore, a shared bottom end with each company using their own head just makes too much sense to me. imo, BMW will use a full on B58 while toyota will use a B58 block and their own head. what would the head be like? how about combining two V35A-FTS heads end to end? instant I6 head full of toyota dna...

and FWIW B58 bore/stroke ratio is 0.866 and the V35A-FTS is 0.855, pretty darn close...
 

tfoxyr

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a hybrid is just as unlikely as the supra getting the tt v6..and no thanks to the weight disadvantage even with a "mild" hybrid. plus most folks on here have agreed since there was no sticker on the supra when being tested at the nring it pretty much confirmed this..
I agree on the lexus v6 tt not being under the hood , but a mild hybrid for 2019 is not far fetched i believe. The biggest issue is the weight yes , but i recall toyota had invested in lithium ion batteries , also a lot of cars after 2020 must comply to new legislations . Laws about emissions become stricter , and i mean very much unfortunately , so even for performance cars this will be kind of unnavoidable . The good thing about that is that toyota is #1 on this front , so that is why many people are wondering about hybridisation.
 

HKz

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let's think about this logically. the most likely scenario, imo, is the use of the B58 block (closed deck ftw) in both cars. this just makes too much sense. from engine mounts to transmissions, too much would have to change if you change the block... the head? this is where things get interesting.

BMW uses valvetronic. this is their marquee technology. their "special sauce". i doubt they want toyota to use it and for their technology to be serviced at toyota dealers...

toyota uses integrated exhaust manifold, D-4S or D-4ST (dual injectors), and VVT-iE or VVT-iW (otto & atkinson cycle). toyota has their own recipe for "special sauce" and it's also all in the head.

therefore, a shared bottom end with each company using their own head just makes too much sense to me. imo, BMW will use a full on B58 while toyota will use a B58 block and their own head. what would the head be like? how about combining two V35A-FTS heads end to end? instant I6 head full of toyota dna...

and FWIW B58 bore/stroke ratio is 0.866 and the V35A-FTS is 0.855, pretty darn close...
if that is the case where bmw & toyota will have separate engines that share the same block, it will be very interesting to see what sort of power each put out...basically whether bmw "allows" toyota to have higher specs..
 

PerformanceSound

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Why is the idea of a TT V6 sound so obscured? You mean to tell me that the idea of Toyota designing and engineering an entirely new cylinder head makes more sense than an existing design that has been tested and proven in a Toyota/Lexus!?!?!

Consider the following:
- Toyota doesn't make good cylinder heads, their outsourced firm Yamaha does!
- It will cost more to engineer and develop a Toyota performance cylinder head (in collaboration with Yamaha) to cross-fit a BMW bottom-end than to ship pre-assembled Toyota TT V6's Germany.

Again, I know nothing of what the new FT-1 will mechanically be....however, I do know that if Toyota uses a BMW motor, it won't be a smart move....or if they use a BMW bottom-end with a Toyota head, that it will be more money than just shipping a Toyota derived motor to Europe.

One last note....STOP CALLING IT A NEW SUPRA!!!! IT'S AN FT-1 UNTIL TOYOTA SAYS OTHERWISE!!!
 
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Guff

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Why is the idea of a TT V6 sound so obscured? You mean to tell me that the idea of Toyota designing and engineering an entirely new cylinder head makes more sense than an existing design that has been tested and proven in a Toyota/Lexus!?!?!

Consider the following:
- Toyota doesn't make good cylinder heads, their outsourced firm Yamaha does!
- It will cost more to engineer and develop a Toyota performance cylinder head (in collaboration with Yamaha) to cross-fit a BMW bottom-end than to ship pre-assembled Toyota TT V6's Germany.

Again, I know nothing of what the new FT-1 will mechanically be....however, I do know that if Toyota uses a BMW motor, it won't be a smart move....or if they use a BMW bottom-end with a Toyota head, that it will be more money than just shipping a Toyota derived motor to Europe.

One last note....STOP CALLING IT A NEW SUPRA!!!! IT'S AN FT-1 UNTIL TOYOTA SAYS OTHERWISE!!!
It's not that we don't think it's possible that we'll get a Toyota/Lexus V6, it's just that every Toyota person I've ever talked to has said it's not. Also they all called it the Supra as well.

:dunno:

I'd love to hope for the best as well, but we're just relaying the information we've been given.
 

Craigy

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Why is the idea of a TT V6 sound so obscured? You mean to tell me that the idea of Toyota designing and engineering an entirely new cylinder head makes more sense than an existing design that has been tested and proven in a Toyota/Lexus!?!?!

Consider the following:
- Toyota doesn't make good cylinder heads, their outsourced firm Yamaha does!
- It will cost more to engineer and develop a Toyota performance cylinder head (in collaboration with Yamaha) to cross-fit a BMW bottom-end than to ship pre-assembled Toyota TT V6's Germany.

Again, I know nothing of what the new FT-1 will mechanically be....however, I do know that if Toyota uses a BMW motor, it won't be a smart move....or if they use a BMW bottom-end with a Toyota head, that it will be more money than just shipping a Toyota derived motor to Europe.

One last note....STOP CALLING IT A NEW SUPRA!!!! IT'S AN FT-1 UNTIL TOYOTA SAYS OTHERWISE!!!
Pretty strong chance at this point that the car will be Supra. Arguably not 100%, but it's been speculated from the beginning, come out of the mouths of Toyota and Calty insiders on interviews, Toyota renewed the trademark, car will sit in the same slot as the Mk4, it's the biggest sportscar nameplate in their repertoire, carries most cachet, particularly among consumers.

However, what is a virtual certainty is that this car is not FT-1. FT-1 is the concept car they showed us at NAIAS in 2014 and paraded around after that. We even know what FT stands for, confirmed from multiple sources, as "Future Toyota." Without a doubt the production car will no longer be a future toyota. The pre-production prototypes are the new Supra, or at least the new Toyota sportscar, not FT-1.
 

PerformanceSound

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However, what is a virtual certainty is that this car is not FT-1. FT-1 is the concept car they showed us at NAIAS in 2014 and paraded around after that. We even know what FT stands for, confirmed from multiple sources, as "Future Toyota." Without a doubt the production car will no longer be a future toyota. The pre-production prototypes are the new Supra, or at least the new Toyota sportscar, not FT-1.
Toyota/Lexus called the LF-A the "LF-A" during all phases of its concept, development, testing, and production. To say that Toyota would never use FT-1 is a bold statement. The reason I believe Toyota will stick with FT-1 or a different name is because the new halo car must be it's own unique brand. We have seen this time and time again with Toyota's halo cars (2000GT, Celica, and Supra). They usually only keep the same name when revising the model immediately after an older production run (i.e., 1988-1992, 1994-1998, etc..). To wait 24yrs and then re-introduce the "Supra" is a bold move on Toyota's part....considering the high expectations people have now for the Supra name and the countless failures of other manufacturers who have made the same move (Nissan with the 350Z, Mazda with the RX-8, etc...). Toyota engineers have said it over and over, "those cars (2000GT, Celica, Supra) need to be left alone..." "...they were great cars for their times."

Toyota will make a great halo car, and I personally hope it will be called a Supra so that Toyota can strongly consider the over-engineering that needs to be incorporated in it. However, I feel that the new halo car will be a new model...maybe not called the FT-1, but I don't think it will be called a Supra. There is a very high expectation for a new Supra....and Toyota knows this. To build a new sports car (especially one co-developed with BMW known for it's not so stellar reliability) and then put a Supra badge on it would be a bad business move on Toyota's part.

Again, I personally will not call it a Supra unless Toyota does....publicly!....and knowing Toyota, they wouldn't embarrass themselves by labeling a BMW a Supra. Just my two cents.
 

Craigy

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Toyota/Lexus called the LF-A the "LF-A" during all phases of its concept, development, testing, and production. To say that Toyota would never use FT-1 is a bold statement. The reason I believe Toyota will stick with FT-1 or a different name is because the new halo car must be it's own unique brand. We have seen this time and time again with Toyota's halo cars (2000GT, Celica, and Supra). They usually only keep the same name when revising the model immediately after an older production run (i.e., 1988-1992, 1994-1998, etc..). To wait 24yrs and then re-introduce the "Supra" is a bold move on Toyota's part....considering the high expectations people have now for the Supra name and the countless failures of other manufacturers who have made the same move (Nissan with the 350Z, Mazda with the RX-8, etc...). Toyota engineers have said it over and over, "those cars (2000GT, Celica, Supra) need to be left alone..." "...they were great cars for their times."

Toyota will make a great halo car, and I personally hope it will be called a Supra so that Toyota can strongly consider the over-engineering that needs to be incorporated in it. However, I feel that the new halo car will be a new model...maybe not called the FT-1, but I don't think it will be called a Supra. There is a very high expectation for a new Supra....and Toyota knows this. To build a new sports car (especially one co-developed with BMW known for it's not so stellar reliability) and then put a Supra badge on it would be a bad business move on Toyota's part.

Again, I personally will not call it a Supra unless Toyota does....publicly!....and knowing Toyota, they wouldn't embarrass themselves by labeling a BMW a Supra. Just my two cents.
Toyota has had a few concepts called FT, and I don't believe anything has been released with such a name.

Toyota has recently filed and obtained trademarks in US and EU for "Supra." They could simply be holding this name so no one else gets it, but it's a pretty good likelihood it will go to some use.

And again, while there may not be a press release calling it a Supra, if you look around, you can find quotes with Toyota execs calling it Supra.

And then, for what it's worth, Mazda sold a lot of RX8s and Nissan sold a ton of 350s and 370s. Might not have lived up to rose colored memories of the old RX7s and Z cars, but they were absolutely a success.
 
 




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