The Engine Speculation Thread

I have always wondered if Toyota had made any of the mules/prototypes with their own drivetrain?

johnny_10196 said:

I have always wondered if Toyota had made any of the mules/prototypes with their own drivetrain?

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I'd hope so. It be pretty cool to know if they have thrown a 2JZ in there to see how it compares to the new engine set up as well.

no 6cyl variations with Toyota powertrain were made, although if Toyota was developing the car alone that would be likely IMO.

that said, the car did originally test with another BMW motor. I think it was the S55? In fact, the engineers seemed to really like that motor.

Wonder how cool it would be if they never dropped the S55 and that's actually whats going in the top level car (@420hp+). More just me hoping for that which will never be I suppose.

It seems like some people in this forum are unhappy about current horsepower figures(Inline 6: 320-350hp) that have been stated in articles and or speculated in the forum threads. Apparently the Supra will use BMW engines to power the car, and if this is true, I want to remind some of you that BMW has a history of underrating their engine outputs. I suggest we all keep an open mind and take any new information with a grain of salt.


With that said, an image/document of BMW's model codes(below) was leaked a while back in August 2017,
According to this, the inline 6 variant for the US, will be using the engine in the 340i. BMW has stated that this engine outputs 320hp while newer updates may be up to 335hp at the crank. A dynojet from Burger Motorsports (popular BMW tuner) testing the 2016 340i, displayed a reading of 331whp and 339torque. See below for reference.
When we apply the 15% rule for RWD drivetrain loss, the B58 engine outputs 380hp at the crank. Some of you may still be disappointed with this figure, but tunes are available, unfortunately at the expense of a warranty probably. Additionally, there is still a possibility of the Supra getting the B58 M performance tuned engine that outputs 355hp, and if BMW is underrating this too, then 400+hp.

I mentioned before that we should take everything with a grain of salt, so I want to note that I can't validate the dyno results, or take into consideration the variables that may have affected the results, but from anecdotal evidence and other people's testimonies, I do believe BMW does indeed underrate their power figures. If the Supra does stick with a BMW powertrain, then I think we should be okay and that the HP is reasonable. Ultimately though, everything is subject to change, and we truly don't know anything until Toyota officially releases the information. I will keep an open mind though, I believe Toyota will do right by the Supra and the consumers.

Link to dyno discussion for reference: http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35355


TLDR: IF IT'S A BMW ENGINE IN THE SUPRA, IT HAS MORE POWER THAN THEY ARE LEADING YOU TO BELIEVE!

Great post. Thanks. Personally I believe mid 300 horsepower is plenty from factory on such a light car. I'm sure there will be after market performance upgrades and upgrades through TRD.

solidsamir said:

Great post. Thanks. Personally I believe mid 300 horsepower is plenty from factory on such a light car. I'm sure there will be after market performance upgrades and upgrades through TRD.

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It may not be that light - A70TTR heard a figure of under 2900 pounds, but more recent articles are stating up to 3200 lbs.

But even at the higher weight figure I'd be fine with 350 hp. Test drove a 3300 lb 370Z recently and it was more than fast with its 332 hp. 40 mph to lose-your-license speeds on the freeway in a few seconds. I'd rather they kept the costs down and focused on fun-to drive rather than try to outdo a base Vette in the power to weight sweepstakes.

I believe this has already been covered. But welcome to the forums.

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/bm...to-transmission-4-and-6-cylinder-engines.631/

vb22 said:

I believe this has already been covered. But welcome to the forums.

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/bm...to-transmission-4-and-6-cylinder-engines.631/

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Thanks, I recently discovered this forum and have been binge reading threads and comments. I believe the linked thread was one of the main threads where members were voicing their displeasure with the presumed horse power. I just wanted to address some of those concerns with some proof and facts.

DevonK said:

It may not be that light - A70TTR heard a figure of under 2900 pounds, but more recent articles are stating up to 3200 lbs.

But even at the higher weight figure I'd be fine with 350 hp. Test drove a 3400 lb 370Z recently and it was more than fast with its 330 hp - 40 mph to lose-your-license speeds on the freeway in a few seconds. I'd rather they kept the costs down and focused on fun-to drive rather than try to outdo a base Vette in the power to weight sweepstakes.

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I agree, with this Supra, a weight of 3200lbs(give or take) and a theoretical hp of 380, it should be a very fun and sporty car while allowing for it to be affordable and worth the purchase to the masses. If owners are still unhappy with the power, they can always modify their cars, one of the main reasons why it became so iconic is its tunability amongst enthusiasts.

K_Phamo said:

Thanks, I recently discovered this forum and have been binge reading threads and comments. I believe the linked thread was one of the main threads where members were voicing their displeasure with the presumed horse power. I just wanted to address some of those concerns with some proof and facts.

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Not to mention that the old thread got way off topic with talking about Scions, Kias, and Lexus. Maybe everyone will stay on topic for once.

Hate on me if you like, but I feel that if we drop a V-8 in the new Supra, it'll become more of a pony car and destroy the ethos of the MkIV for being a tunable, tossable, genuine sports car.
Screw CARB regulations and all, it just doesn't feel right. Maybe a standard LFA's block minus 4 cylinders, or perhaps a modernized 2JZ?

Chances of this are about as high as the Ford GT getting one

Hi all. I'm new to the forums and just as excited about the a90 as everybody is. I love the new look. The FT-1 was wishful thinking to think that Toyota would do a complete transfer from that concept to the street but it looks like they didn't water down the street version too much as least based on what the racing version looks like so far. I know that's not the street version since it has all of the race trimmings but you can at least get the general idea of what the street version will look like.

In any case, I wanted to jump into the discussion and noticed a lot of people bashing Toyota for an auto only rumor. It seems that when people think of auto, all of the discussion seems to be circling around a traditional automatic transmission with a torque convertor. I'd like to offer my opinion for food for thought.

So with the release of the Toyota Supra GR, it's safe to assume that the road going version isn't too far behind although with the gestation period of the Supra being as long as it has been, I wouldn't be surprised if we have to wait another 6 months or so before we see the car. Of course seeing the car doesn't necessarily mean that Toyota will release the specs at the same time.

From what I've read so far, it seems that one thing is constant in that it keeps being reported that the Supra will use a BMW sourced in-line 6 (yeah for the in-line 6 config) and I believe it's been reported to be 3.0L with an automatic transmission. Depending on application from BMW, the current 3.0L i6 makes about 335hp I believe. That's a lot by 1998 standards but pretty average for 2018 standards.

So the rumors keeps circulating around the 3.0L and it seems that people have been referring to the n55/b58 engine in the regular 3 series. It seems that people have been referring to the 335hp or so and saying that 335hp is too little for a Supra if it's to fight with some of the competition on the road today. Here's the thing. I'm wondering if Toyota have been coy about the 3.0L because the S55 in the M3 is also a 3.0L but it makes about 444hp depending on application. With a new detuned S55 version supposedly coming out to go into the M2 CS to make about 405hp, I think either of these S55 engines may be the top of the line option for the Supra.

So here's my layout of the engine. S55 with about 405hp to 444hp in the top of the line Supra. N55/B58 with about 335hp in the midline option for the Supra. Now here's the thing. I don't believe that I've read anything confirmed for an in-line 4 but if it does happen, I'm guessing it would pull the in-line 4 from the BMW 330 which makes about 248hp. I don't recall the engine code at the moment.

As far as the automatic is concerned, I also think this is a little trickery from Toyota. Although it might not have a traditional 3 pedal manual transmission, it's possible that the automatic transmission is actually referring to a double clutch "automatic" transmission. I've read in various articles and manufacturer specs where they refer to the double clutch transmission as the "automatic" option but not the automatic transmission that has a true convertor.

If in fact the Supra does use the S55 engine, I don't think it would be too far fetched to use the M3/M4 double clutch transmission as the "automatic" transmission. If the Supra uses the N55/B58 engine, I don't know that it would have a double clutch "automatic" transmission because I'm not aware of any double clutch application with the N55/B58 engine.

My thoughts. What are yours?