New rumors from C&D: 2020 Supra to get BMW inline six engine / B58 & S58 chat

Blupra said:

With the M2 dropping the N55 for the S55 for 2019... Shouldn't the Supra get the M2 engine (S55 detuned from M4) over the B58 M240i engine?

I vote for S55 - tuned roughly the same as the new M2 around 400hp.

#3jz

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doublespaces said:

Hello,

I did not read the entire thread, but I thought I'd chime in here from the BMW side of things as I am the owner of SpoolStreet.com, the site originally linked in the OP.

I have a 2009 BMW 335i with a big single turbo N54 motor, precision 6266, lots of things done to it. But what I can say, is that anyone who knows anything about these motors will be excited about the potential of the B58. The ECU is not cracked, but it will be eventually just like every other high profile automotive computer. The B58 is more over-square which isn't as good for revs, but in the end its not really going to matter. This engine doesn't need to be a naturally aspirated screamer up to 8500 rpm from the factory. The one drawback are the spray lined cylinders, those aren't the greatest for engine rebuilds, although they do perform very well. But don't worry about the power potential as once the ECU is cracked, this thing will put out the power, I'm confident of that.

Now as far as how this relates to the new Supra, there are a lot of variables there because we don't really know what engine the production version of this car is going to get. A lot of people have speculated the B58, and I think that is probably right, at least for some trims. But there is a chance that there could be an RZ version or special version that may even get the S58.



In response to this, yes, the M2 will start getting a detuned S55, but that is not the long term position of the M2 moving forward. BMW traditionally does not do a lot of Technical Updates (ex, S55TU) for M motors, and it is commonly known the successor to the S55 is actually the S58, I think I saw someone mention it.

There are rumors the G80 M3 M4 will have a BAS(Battery Alternator Starter) which acts as a partial electric drive motor and presumably will have the S58 motor. There were even rumors of the Supra being a hybrid years ago if I recall, so this wouldn't be too far off the mark to think there may be a chance some trims of the new Supra may have the S58. If it does not turn out that way, I believe they may have planned it that way at some point in the past.

I don't know as much about Supras as I do BMWs, but the Supra is going to have a good motor for making big power, its a turbo inline 6. Anyone who wants to be serious with those cars will probably put a stand alone on it anyway, which eliminates the only real big concern here outside of the fuel delivery options.

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supraboi said:

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supraboi said:

Imagine if Toyota had teamed up with Mercedes instead.

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A70TTR said:

I would have refused to even work on the project.

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A70TTR said:

I would have refused to even work on the project.

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PerformanceSound said:

Is this true!?!?!?

I was at my local Toyota dealer over the weekend getting some 2JZ parts for my build, and while I was waiting for parts....I asked the guy in parts (while one of the master techs was next to him), "do you guys have any knowledge at all on the MKV Supra....anything at all!?!" The tech said, "we know as much as you do, it will be called a Supra, it will be a co-developed car, it will be smaller and more affordable than the MKIV Supra, and it will use Toyota's D4S self cleaning system to help with carbon.....that's it!!"

Does that mean, that the Z4 may not have either the same intake runners, or cylinder head design? If so, that means potentially 12 injectors!!!!....6 direct injected, 6 along the lower runners....Oh man!!!

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PerformanceSound said:

Is this true!?!?!?

I was at my local Toyota dealer over the weekend getting some 2JZ parts for my build, and while I was waiting for parts....I asked the guy in parts (while one of the master techs was next to him), "do you guys have any knowledge at all on the MKV Supra....anything at all!?!" The tech said, "we know as much as you do, it will be called a Supra, it will be a co-developed car, it will be smaller and more affordable than the MKIV Supra, and it will use Toyota's D4S self cleaning system to help with carbon.....that's it!!"

Does that mean, that the Z4 may not have either the same intake runners, or cylinder head design? If so, that means potentially 12 injectors!!!!....6 direct injected, 6 along the lower runners....Oh man!!!

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Modal170 said:

Explain this to me as if I'm five please.

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PerformanceSound said:

Is this true!?!?!?

I was at my local Toyota dealer over the weekend getting some 2JZ parts for my build, and while I was waiting for parts....I asked the guy in parts (while one of the master techs was next to him), "do you guys have any knowledge at all on the MKV Supra....anything at all!?!" The tech said, "we know as much as you do, it will be called a Supra, it will be a co-developed car, it will be smaller and more affordable than the MKIV Supra, and it will use Toyota's D4S self cleaning system to help with carbon.....that's it!!"

Does that mean, that the Z4 may not have either the same intake runners, or cylinder head design? If so, that means potentially 12 injectors!!!!....6 direct injected, 6 along the lower runners....Oh man!!!

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PerformanceSound said:

Why soitenly!!! So, by injecting gasoline at high pressure directly into the engine’s combustion chamber, direct injection more precisely measures fuel than conventional fuel-injection systems. This is generally one direct injector per cylinder (i.e., IS250, VW Golf, Audi’s, etc...) see image below. The result is more complete combustion and cooler cylinder temperatures that enable a higher compression ratio for greater efficiency and power. Direct injection can return a 15 percent gain in fuel economy while boosting low-end torque as much as 50 percent. Combining direct injection with other technologies—such as turbocharging—can deliver even greater gains in economy and performance. Although the breakthrough seems like a dream come true, an unwanted side effect has been emerging...that over time DI can lead to clogged fuel systems and engine carbon buildup. The result can be engine hesitation and a loss of power—and the need for expensive repairs. Some carmakers, including BMW and Kia, have issued technical service bulletins (TSBs) to their dealers recommending that drivers use only name-brand detergent gasoline—without ethanol additives—and that they periodically add a fuel-system cleaner when they refuel.

Now that we understand what DI is, let’s look at why Toyota has a system designed to incorporate not only one direct injector per cylinder, but also an additional port fuel injector before the combustion chamber....on the lower intake manifold runner, like the MKIV Supra (and almost every car of the late 80’s, 90’s, and 00’s had (see image below, the two injectors highlighted in blue per cylinder). This sprays fuel on top of the valves as the fuel and air mixture entered the combustion chamber....cleaning carbon and any contaminates off the valves and valve seats. Cleaning and providing more fuel for power at WOT. Lexus has this on their IS/GS/RC/etc...350 motors. You essentially get 12 injectors, 6 DI injectors and 6 port fuel lower injectors.

What does this mean for us??? Well, depending on the ECU tunability, this means we can in theory run 12 huge injectors (or at the minimum 6 huge injectors) for big big BIG POWER!

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Modal170 said:

Basically, we double the amount of existing injectors that would cause a huge rush of power that normally would be for reserving gas, meaning great tuning potential.

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