Petition To Toyota For Manual Transmission.

Update the petition goal, 500 is nowhere near enough to make a difference. Add another 0.

As for the DCT (M3 is DCT, not DSG) vs automatic argument, its not clear from the interviews of Tada san if they are saying people don't care if it has a a stick or a DCT, or if they are saying people don't care if it has a stick or an AUTO with a Torque converter. It wouldn't be the end of the world if the car only came with the M3's DCT. That is the optional tranny on that car, the 6 Spd is standard, and no traditional auto tranny available it looks (though probably on the regular 3 series). But the last gen Z4 has all 3, depending which engine you get it with. I wish they would be clear about which tranny they are offering (torque converter Auto, or DCT). But yeah, 6spd manual is king, lets get that as an option regardless!

^ Interestingly enough, as someone else pointed out, the new M5 is apparently going AT only with the ZF8. Some folks on the BMW forums were saying it was due to a majority of drivers not being able to perceive the difference between that and DCT (poll), and the fact that they are far cheaper to make.

A70TTR said:

^ Interestingly enough, as someone else pointed out, the new M5 is apparently going AT only with the ZF8. Some folks on the BMW forums were saying it was due to a majority of drivers not being able to perceive the difference between that and DCT (poll), and the fact that they are far cheaper to make.

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Also, I'm sure that the 550 lb/ft that the M5 makes is much less destructive going through a torque converter than a DCT.

Hey, the MKV Supra might end up having a similar case as with the E46 M3’s....where the SMG was actually the 6speed Getrag manual transmission with a different tail housing and actuators added. If none of you are familiar with the E46 conversions, Google “E46 SMG to Manual Conversion.”

PerformanceSound said:

Hey, the MKV Supra might end up having a similar case as with the E46 M3’s....where the SMG was actually the 6speed Getrag manual transmission with a different tail housing and actuators added. If none of are familiar with the E46 conversions, Google “E46 SMG to Manual Conversion.”

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Does any manufacturer still use automated single-clutch manuals? They seemed to have been phased out; with the old Aventador being one of the last ones.

Maybe an option wont be available for one, but don't expect the two cars to come out with different transmissions.
If one of the two cars (Z4/Supra) comes with a manual, it will be likely an easy direct swap for the other as well.
I don't believe the Z4 won't have a manual or BMW's DCT. Manual and M40i (3.0 twin turbo) already confirmed for Europe.
But even if the Supra comes with that DCT (referred to as "auto" until today) it's not something bad at all. (see GT-R).

Mike said:

Maybe an option wont be available for one, but don't expect the two cars to come out with different transmissions.
If one of the two cars (Z4/Supra) comes with a manual, it will be likely an easy direct swap for the other as well.
I don't believe the Z4 won't have a manual or BMW's DCT. Manual and M40i (3.0 twin turbo) already confirmed for Europe.
But even if the Supra comes with that DCT (referred to as "auto" until today) it's not something bad at all. (see GT-R).

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Look at the bright side, win win for swappers!

its a BMW drive train it looks like... adding a manual NOW a year before launch when they planned not to have it 3-4 years ago is not possible.

Maybe generation 2... but sales will determine that. If the auto sells well enough they will not add a manual. Its a HUGE job, new drive train components and those things require years of development and testing unless there was a manual developed already but just shelved.

upnsmoke said:

its a BMW drive train it looks like... adding a manual NOW a year before launch when they planned not to have it 3-4 years ago is not possible.

Maybe generation 2... but sales will determine that. If the auto sells well enough they will not add a manual. Its a HUGE job, new drive train components and those things require years of development and testing unless there was a manual developed already but just shelved.

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That's what A70TTR told us.

More than half way to 1,000 Signatures!!

After 1,000 word of mouth and online sharing will spread even faster and things will really get moving. Lets keep the momentum!

supraboi said:

That's what A70TTR told us.

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well worked in the Automotive Industry as an engineer and specifications, especially engine and chassis are set in stone 3-4 years before the plastic aesthetic parts are developed, as those parts change a lot due to marketing and designer feedback and revision. The mechanical side goes testing as soon as there is a platform and a white body can be pressed for prototypes, sheet metal and chassis parts are usually in-house parts so the OEM can crank them out very early. Drive train is also developed, evaluated and revised during the chassis and underbody "tests". New platforms, meaning the underbody/chassis is from scratch or mainly new will require an extra year or two in development.

upnsmoke said:

well worked in the Automotive Industry as an engineer and specifications, especially engine and chassis are set in stone 3-4 years before the plastic aesthetic parts are developed, as those parts change a lot due to marketing and designer feedback and revision. The mechanical side goes testing as soon as there is a platform and a white body can be pressed for prototypes, sheet metal and chassis parts are usually in-house parts so the OEM can crank them out very early. Drive train is also developed, evaluated and revised during the chassis and underbody "tests". New platforms, meaning the underbody/chassis is from scratch or mainly new will require an extra year or two in development.

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Wow! I had no idea!

supraboi said:

That's what A70TTR told us.

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Spy shots do back that up, at least for the Z4.

vb22 said:

Spy shots do back that up, at least for the Z4.

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Nice manual in that BMW...

upnsmoke said:

well worked in the Automotive Industry as an engineer and specifications, especially engine and chassis are set in stone 3-4 years before the plastic aesthetic parts are developed, as those parts change a lot due to marketing and designer feedback and revision. The mechanical side goes testing as soon as there is a platform and a white body can be pressed for prototypes, sheet metal and chassis parts are usually in-house parts so the OEM can crank them out very early. Drive train is also developed, evaluated and revised during the chassis and underbody "tests". New platforms, meaning the underbody/chassis is from scratch or mainly new will require an extra year or two in development.

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Given that the BMW version has a manual (as seen above) in testing. The decision to about whether or not it actually gets sold that way for the Supra is easier to make later in the game. The engineering is already (significantly) done.

Jeff