Jalopnik: New Toyota Supra Rendering Based on Insider Info

Carmaker1

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everyone don't let up, that mule ain't the Supra, this is all hype from fake articles written on unpopular car websites like Caradvice from Australia which then gets used as sources on Motor Trend and C&D articles. Anyone can try to draw similarities but until there is something actually official this is all bullshit. For my two cents, that mule is the Z5M.

Remember what Toyota did with the LF-LC and how that turned out with the Lexus LC...Toyota won't disappoint us here.
I get that the front end doesn't resemble the BMW kidney grills and that it looks different from the roadster mule we all saw earlier in the year but it still means nothing especially in the context that it makes zero sense for Toyota to be relying on BMW when they make three times the profits that BMW takes in and since they own no stake in BMW (unlike Toyota/Subaru).

I think the mule's design is possibly just not finished and/or wearing some really unattractive camo/bumper which has distorted the lines on it...you gotta remember there is still a lot of time remaining as Toyota won't dare release any official details until after the Lexus LC has been out for at least half a year just like how they announced the MKIV Supra half a year after the Lexus SC.
I have no idea why you believe that any of your assertions to have any single ounce of accuracy. This is an old post I am aware, but I honestly find it unfortunate no one else dismissed any of this drivel. Gymratter already made an excellent point, in that BMW have never for one day, been able to fully hide grilles on their mules and prototypes, unless some of the most expensive and exhaustive disguising techniques were applied, as they did back in the 1970s and 1980s.

Since the 1990s with E38 prototypes during 1991-1993, they have not bothered to omit the trademark grills on prototypes as much until testing of E36 3-Series test cars in the 1989-90 period. The implementation of the Kidney Grilles in BMW fascias since then, makes it nearly impossible to have a "grille-less" appearance. No one has any reason to believe your silly theory, that this is somehow a Z5. It was an early prototype without the production interior, which isn't unheard of since prototypes progress in stages.
1972 BMW 5-Series (E12) testing in 1971
wpid-bmw-e12-5-series-prototype1.jpg E36 Coupe Prototype in 1990 E36 May 1990.png
E38 7er Prototype 1991/92 E38 Prototype 1992 1.jpg

As you can see, including the Z5 spy shots and with plenty of BMWs over the years, there is no such thing as (upper) grille-free BMW.

Car Advice do have a good degree of credibility regarding Japanese brands, especially Toyotas, unlike that of U.S. and UK sources. Japanese sources probably have the most insight in general, but the language barrier makes it harder for any news to spread around faster.


On another note, you seem to be unable to get your timelines right and now want to confuse fellow posters. The Z30 Soarer/SC went into production in APRIL 1991 and the JZA80 Supra (MKIV) in APRIL 1993. Not only that, they were designed years apart. Toyota commissioned Z30 development in 1987, nearly a year after the MKIII went into production in 1986 and that of the Z20 Soarer. By the end of 1988, styling of the Z30 was mostly established and later frozen in early 1989.

The JZA80 began in February 1989 and production design was frozen at the end of 1990, nearly 2 years after the SC. I don't see how that equals "announced the MKIV Supra half a year after the Lexus SC". Lexus announced the SC in May 1991 and the Supra was announced nearly 2 years later, not even on sale until June 1993. By the summer of 1992, Toyota was already finishing up design work on the '95 model year SC refresh and the MKIV still wasn't even out.

Also, unless you are referring to the stage of prototype and not that of the overall development programme, the design is very much finished, as the design was frozen around March 2015. Your point in that case wouldn't make sense.

The reason that BMW is so involved with testing these cars, is that they are in charge of chassis development and to a degree micromanaged mule development, even locking out many Toyota personnel from that side of things, save for a few. It is never good to comment on something in the manner that you did, when hardly even accurate in the first place.
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gymratter

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I'm not really sure I understand your point or was it supposed to be tongue-in-cheek? The FT-1 production design from what I can recall, has been a done deal the past 1.5 to 2 years. The design freeze was around March of 2015 and production concept was approved in the third quarter of 2014, September 2014 to be precise. Really ridiculous considering how the 950A Lexus LC coupe design was barely frozen 2 1/2 years ago and goes on sale in spring 2017 and 200B Lexus LS design freeze in 2014.

Such concerns/requests really have to be made very early for them "hear you out" or significant delays will just occur in place of reacting to such commentary. They are already building production tooling for these cars, so to change anything would be prohibitively expensive.
im just saying Jalopnik's rendering looks pretty bad, and we all should reserve judgement until the car is officially unveiled.

its more wishing and hoping that Jalopnik is dead wrong. with that said i have faith that they will make it look good.
 

HKz

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I have no idea why you believe that any of your assertions to have any single ounce of accuracy. This is an old post I am aware, but I honestly find it unfortunate no one else dismissed any of this drivel. Gymratter already made an excellent point, in that BMW have never for one day, been able to fully hide grilles on their mules and prototypes, unless some of the most expensive and exhaustive disguising techniques were applied, as they did back in the 1970s and 1980s.

Since the 1990s with E38 prototypes during 1991-1993, they have not bothered to omit the trademark grills on prototypes as much until testing of E36 3-Series test cars in the 1989-90 period. The implementation of the Kidney Grilles in BMW fascias since then, makes it nearly impossible to have a "grille-less" appearance. No one has any reason to believe your silly theory, that this is somehow a Z5. It was an early prototype without the production interior, which isn't unheard of since prototypes progress in stages.
1972 BMW 5-Series (E12) testing in 1971
wpid-bmw-e12-5-series-prototype1.jpg E36 Coupe Prototype in 1990 E36 May 1990.png
E38 7er Prototype 1991/92 E38 Prototype 1992 1.jpg

As you can see, including the Z5 spy shots and with plenty of BMWs over the years, there is no such thing as (upper) grille-free BMW.

Car Advice do have a good degree of credibility regarding Japanese brands, especially Toyotas, unlike that of U.S. and UK sources. Japanese sources probably have the most insight in general, but the language barrier makes it harder for any news to spread around faster.


On another note, you seem to be unable to get your timelines right and now want to confuse fellow posters. The Z30 Soarer/SC went into production in APRIL 1991 and the JZA80 Supra (MKIV) in APRIL 1993. Not only that, they were designed years apart. Toyota commissioned Z30 development in 1987, nearly a year after the MKIII went into production in 1986 and that of the Z20 Soarer. By the end of 1988, styling of the Z30 was mostly established and later frozen in early 1989.

The JZA80 began in February 1989 and production design was frozen at the end of 1990, nearly 2 years after the SC. I don't see how that equals "announced the MKIV Supra half a year after the Lexus SC". Lexus announced the SC in May 1991 and the Supra was announced nearly 2 years later, not even on sale until June 1993. By the summer of 1992, Toyota was already finishing up design work on the '95 model year SC refresh and the MKIV still wasn't even out.

Also, unless you are referring to the stage of prototype and not that of the overall development programme, the design is very much finished, as the design was frozen around March 2015. Your point in that case wouldn't make sense.


The reason that BMW is so involved with testing these cars, is that they are in charge of chassis development and to a degree micromanaged mule development, even locking out many Toyota personnel from that side of things, save for a few. It is never good to comment on something in the manner that you did, when hardly even accurate in the first place.
Lol.

The camo concern, ok, no kidney grill camo on the mule, so it automatically means the FT1/Supra :)

The dates around the SC/MKIV Supra wasn't my argument...clearly the main point went over your head. It was merely to show that Toyota is in the exact position coming out with the LC which would logically follow the same path they took with the SC but I guess Toyota is overflowing with so much money that they can create a new global Toyota & Lexus platform and then pay BMW to make a separate platform outside of their normal production (..I'm still surprised that I don't see this forum riddled with JDM fanatics crying about BMW costs)

There wasn't anything "inaccurate" about my post save for the dates. Just like how you brought up historical evidence, that is largely what I base my assumptions from. My thoughts are just as baseless as your post with no sources.
 

gymratter

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when it comes down to it everyone is entitle to their own opinions. with that said there is a lot of similarities between the prototype in question and the FT1 concept. lets just agree to disagree until there is more info to go on.

 

Carmaker1

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The point is that your credibility is questionable in that regard, when you cannot get simple facts correct in your argument and only present fallacies. There is nothing wrong with believing the LC and Supra should be aligned, I agree with that idea more so than some BMW partnership. However, it is just not happening and you could not seem to accept that and brought up inane reasons (Toyota body is a Z5). No one else has had the patience to refute all that, until now.

I am not going to provide you sources regarding its development, as it's already out there. I don't waste time with fallacies. It was already publicly confirmed in print that the styling was set in the third quarter of 2014 and fully locked in by spring 2015. As someone who works in the automotive industry, I know well enough how development works from OEM to OEM (especially Toyota and BMW) and that there are limitations on how prototypes can be designed. Everything continues to unravel regarding this project and prove your older flagrant assertions wrong about the test vehicle not being a "Supra" or a Toyota at least.

Unless Toyota decides to have an about face and re-designate the FT-1 related programme as a more upmarket GT-86 successor, this will be the Supra. They want a 3-tiered sports car line-up (S-FR*, GT-86, and Supra) It seems that many people remain stubborn towards that reality and want to pretend that every sporty 2-door Lexus offers equals Supra. They do not want to share the GA-L with any non-Lexus products, save for the next generation JDM Crown and Century. So the "idea" of your post didn't "go over my head", as clearly the reality of the actual product in development and investigative reporting on it has gone over yours. Much of your posts in this forum appear to often debated baseless drivel, so perhaps your projecting for that matter.
 

Carmaker1

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im just saying Jalopnik's rendering looks pretty bad, and we all should reserve judgement until the car is officially unveiled.

its more wishing and hoping that Jalopnik is dead wrong. with that said i have faith that they will make it look good.
I agree with you, as I don't really like the rendering and lightly dismissed it, knowing there was still some truth to it. They really had more insight I'm sure, in regards to the C7 Corvette in 2011, but can't be sure about this one. Being that this is Toyota, they are not going to let this slip out so easily (well, BMW on the other hand...). They "have an idea" of the car, but I don't believe they are 100% accurate. All I can hope is, whatever design Toyota has committed to in both metal and plastic, I hope doesn't look 100% like that.

Unfortunately we don't always remember that development happening so much earlier, means we should make concerns heard much early on for future things. Apparently Toyota settled on a production concept design within 8-9 months of the Detroit FT-1 reveal in 2014. Unlike most production cars, since the concept actually came first, what matters most is getting the successive 2 stages right (prod. concept and frozen prod. design). The problem is that the average enthusiast or general customer, won't always be sure what will make sound business case or be feasible to include on/in a production version, thus the company will not bother garnering that kind of public feedback. No one knows the targeted price, so many of us wouldn't even know where to start and suggest to them.

The grey FT-1 at L.A. in November 2014 didn't really show any changes, despite them having prod. styling decided on a few months earlier. I figure there might have not been enough time to implement hints of the production design into an FT-1 II or FT-2 Concept. If they didn't show a more productionised concept back then, I can see why they never bothered to again and probably prefer to wait for the production unveiling.
 

Wally World

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Now that's a nice looking front. Much better than all the straight angles on the Jalopnik render.

Hood is too long on this one though. The prototype has shorter hood. I do wish it was longer like in this image.
 

black-supra

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The hood is pretty long. There is also too much space between the rear wheel and the door.

ec0c867531a426cb48cc812a5664d5cf.jpg


2018-2019 Toyota Supra Prototype4.jpg
 
 




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