Toyota "Preparing" Hotter Supra GRMN, Says Chief Engineer

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supraboi

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I'm really not a car guru, so can anyone please explain the differences between McPherson strut and double wish bone suspensions? Pros and cons? Any benefits one way or the other?
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Nurburgring

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Better camber curve. That means you can usually run less static camber than a mcpherson to achieve the same dynamic camber.

As with most things automotive, implementation is even more important than general design. You can have a double wishbone suspension that sucks, and you can get a mcpherson strut to perform brilliantly. Hell you can get a solid axle car to go really fast at the track too. Personally I wouln`t worry too much about this.
 

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Better camber curve. That means you can usually run less static camber than a mcpherson to achieve the same dynamic camber.

As with most things automotive, implementation is even more important than general design. You can have a double wishbone suspension that sucks, and you can get a mcpherson strut to perform brilliantly. Hell you can get a solid axle car to go really fast at the track too. Personally I wouln`t worry too much about this.
Exactly right, suspension design is far more variable in its practical application than a simple classification describes. Of course, the camber curve and strength is the biggest advantage of a double wishbone design, but space, weight, and cost are all potential advantages with a MacPherson design. I suspect cost played a decent role in this, but considering that Tada-San said that the engine bay was designed to also fit an 8 cylinder if needed in racing applications, perhaps they needed the horizontal space?
 

PerformanceSound

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Those strut towers are reinforced so much for a reason, :rofl:....I bet Toyota told BMW “we don’t want an E46 M3 repeat please.” For those who don’t know what im talking about, google “E46 M3 Strut Tower Cracking.”
 

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Those strut towers are reinforced so much for a reason, :rofl:....I bet Toyota told BMW “we don’t want an E46 M3 repeat please.” For those who don’t know what im talking about, google “E46 M3 Strut Tower Cracking.”
I've had the pleasure of driving a E46 M3 and breaking the rear subframe clean off the body.

That car receives far too much praise in my opinion. It's a car that only gratifies you at 7-10/10ths. In light to medium load it's a dog with over-assisted steering and marginal feel.
 

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I've had the pleasure of driving a E46 M3 and breaking the rear subframe clean off the body.

That car receives far too much praise in my opinion. It's a car that only gratifies you at 7-10/10ths. In light to medium load it's a dog with over-assisted steering and marginal feel.
I agree, M cars in general receive far too much praise. BMW loves giving automotive journalists and media outlets ALOT of “donations” and “gifts.”
 

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I do love the E46 M3 for street driving and general hooning, but it just falls apart at the track. E92 is somewhat similar. F80 is much more capable, but pretty boring and disconnected. E30 is fun but slow, and absurdly overpriced.

M cars are all flawed one way or another, certainly not "ultimate driving machines" as the BMW PR machine would like you to believe, but these cars do have character and can be fun within their own limits.
 

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Better camber curve. That means you can usually run less static camber than a mcpherson to achieve the same dynamic camber.

As with most things automotive, implementation is even more important than general design. You can have a double wishbone suspension that sucks, and you can get a mcpherson strut to perform brilliantly. Hell you can get a solid axle car to go really fast at the track too. Personally I wouln`t worry too much about this.
Like some of the older muscle cars and Japanese cars with solid rear axles can handle really well with the correct modifications.
 

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I've had the pleasure of driving a E46 M3 and breaking the rear subframe clean off the body.

That car receives far too much praise in my opinion. It's a car that only gratifies you at 7-10/10ths. In light to medium load it's a dog with over-assisted steering and marginal feel.
I've heard that the steering gets really twitchy at high speed.

Also how come the E46 M3 have so many structural problems? If this happens to a crappy econobox it won't be too surprising, but for an expensive car to have this problem is ridiculous.

Is it true that a lot of German cars are cheaply made?
 

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I've heard that the steering gets really twitchy at high speed.

Also how come the E46 M3 have so many structural problems? If this happens to a crappy econobox it won't be too surprising, but for an expensive car to have this problem is ridiculous.

Is it true that a lot of German cars are cheaply made?
Bottom-up engineering vs Top-Down I suppose. They start off as 3-series then get the M treatment, not the other way around. Sometimes that doesn't work out so well. They, of course, aren't the only people that operate this way, but it's this type of process that opens the door for oversight like the E46 subframe issue.

German cars are certainly made to a cost, but so is everything else. I will say that German Engineering is generally not as "well-engineered" as most people seem to think, but that might also be down to a difference in ideology. "Well engineered" to many people (including myself) means meeting a particular target while optimizing the material and process to be as efficient and simple as possible. The Germans tend to try to fix tech with more tech and this generally produces overtly complicated systems that might have some initial advantage over a simpler counterpart, but also has far more failure points. In the end, you have parts that break and that are more expensive to replace, which then makes the system useless until repaired.

For me, the concept of "German-Engineered", which for some reason became synonymous with quality, generally has a negative connotation. Plus Torx and Triple-Square can go suck a fat one. Use normal bolts you sons of bitches! (I recently did IMS repair and clutch on a 987 Boxster and it was supremely awful for what should have been a relatively straightforward job, STOP USING STUPID BOLTS.)
 

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Bottom-up engineering vs Top-Down I suppose. They start off as 3-series then get the M treatment, not the other way around. Sometimes that doesn't work out so well. They, of course, aren't the only people that operate this way, but it's this type of process that opens the door for oversight like the E46 subframe issue.

German cars are certainly made to a cost, but so is everything else. I will say that German Engineering is generally not as "well-engineered" as most people seem to think, but that might also be down to a difference in ideology. "Well engineered" to many people (including myself) means meeting a particular target while optimizing the material and process to be as efficient and simple as possible. The Germans tend to try to fix tech with more tech and this generally produces overtly complicated systems that might have some initial advantage over a simpler counterpart, but also has far more failure points. In the end, you have parts that break and that are more expensive to replace, which then makes the system useless until repaired.

For me, the concept of "German-Engineered", which for some reason became synonymous with quality, generally has a negative connotation. Plus Torx and Triple-Square can go suck a fat one. Use normal bolts you sons of bitches! (I recently did IMS repair and clutch on a 987 Boxster and it was supremely awful for what should have been a relatively straightforward job, STOP USING STUPID BOLTS.)
Don't forget the WHEEL BOLTS, those things make mounting wheels a pain in the neck. Oh crap, will the Supra end up having wheel bolts instead of wheel studs?
 

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Don't forget the WHEEL BOLTS, those things make mounting wheels a pain in the neck. Oh crap, will the Supra end up having wheel bolts instead of wheel studs?
Yes, it will. That's sadly one of the few things I confirmed through an insider early on lol.
 

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soo...What type of suspension will the Supra have? Independent rear or...?
 

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soo...What type of suspension will the Supra have? Independent rear or...?
Current consensus is that the rear end is an independent multi-link, so we'll have to wait and see until we can get underneath the car and look at the geometry. I'm sure it'll be good though.
 

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I believe you are correct. However, I guess this does give us a first look at some of the structure of the chassis. I'm sure it's fairly modified, but the reinforced shock towers and big trans tunnel are interesting. Also, we can see clearly that it's a clamshell design.

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