- Banned
- #181
I’m sure toyota put an effort to make some of the design elements to mimic that of the current line up.
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MA617M
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as far as i'm aware, the suppliers of a lot of BMW interior components are also suppliers of Lexus components (so assuming Toyota by extension?) so I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the A90 componentry is rather Lexus-ish... despite the BMW collab.
Just a theory
Just a theory
86Driver
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Reading some of these comments I was just wondering...
Does any of this matter?
If the wheel is from 1 car and the pedals from another. Overall if it's a good looking, comfortable and good quality interior (or anything else) then I'm happy.
My 86 has Subaru badges all over the place (on various parts, most under the hood, etc) - and do I care. No. Why? Cos it's awesome to drive and the overall package was amazing value for money when I bought it.
My interior (which won't be anywhere near the new Supra) has lasted super well over it's 5 year life and still looks pretty good.
Toyota knows how to build good sports cars and I expect this won't be any different.
Does any of this matter?
If the wheel is from 1 car and the pedals from another. Overall if it's a good looking, comfortable and good quality interior (or anything else) then I'm happy.
My 86 has Subaru badges all over the place (on various parts, most under the hood, etc) - and do I care. No. Why? Cos it's awesome to drive and the overall package was amazing value for money when I bought it.
My interior (which won't be anywhere near the new Supra) has lasted super well over it's 5 year life and still looks pretty good.
Toyota knows how to build good sports cars and I expect this won't be any different.
Modal170
Well-Known Member
The problem people have is that Toyota and Subaru wasn't an issue. Two Japanese manufacturers and two where the parts were worked together and formed with Toyota Tech and Subaru Tech. The main problems are three things, from least to greatest but all feed off of one another.
The FT-1 Concept gave people hope for the idea of a Supra and a complete new sports car done entirely by Toyota. They figured if they went balls to the wall with the concept, they can do the same with a Toyota car, and all Toyota instead of another 86 collab. Not mention, it set the bar for the future of this car's development and will forever be compared to the concept
BMW is a HUGE company and Toyota is taking their parts. The big tagline with BMW is German Engineering. They don't last long and if they do, best believe your pockets are going to hurt. The issue isn't much the ride but feeling that their Toyota car is sullied by this foreign manufacturer and having to worry if it's going to fall apart. . The car most likely will be fun to drive, it's the long lasting issue of owning it that got people worried. I personally think Toyota did their work to ensure it doesn't fall apart but people like believing what they want.
The third issue and the biggest one is that while the 86 had Subaru, there was nothing before they could have named it as it was taking inspirations from the corolla AE86 model but not a sequel. This car is a sequel to the MKIV Supra and one with a lot of prestige generated by the enthusiasts more than Toyota themselves. These owners are very vocal about what should and shouldn't be in a car, so imagine those MKIV owners keeling over and frothing at the mouth when Toyota is being "tainted" by German engineering and being called a MKV Supra if anything. Note, and this is while keeping a Straight 6 and FR format. Toyota could have went the Mitsubishi route and made it a crossover but they're not stupid.
Then again, this is the internet, take things with a grain of salt. For everyone one supra Enthusiasts driving the new car, you'll have another knowing absolutely nothing about the car and just likes how it looks feel and sounds. And that's good enough.
DevonK
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I'd go even further - for every Supra enthusiast there will be 50 others who are just looking for a new sports car that's reliable and doesn't have the prestige-related cost premiums of the Europeans. In North America at least the number of legacy Supra fans is minuscule compared to say the size of the BMW or Porsche contingents.
Toyota may play up its Supra tradition in its tech talks, interviews, and marketing materials but it knows selling to legacy enthusiasts alone is not going to allow the Supra to turn a profit or even pay for the car, its appeal has to be much wider. So we get the auto trans, multiple drive modes, e-diff, etc.
Modal170
Well-Known Member
And that's fine for the majority of the market because if it wasn't for that, we would still only have the V6 camry as the top of the line Toyota car that Toyota has in the lineup.
If this car can actually sell and a manual can be provided down the road, that would be great, but these enthusiasts are like 8 percent to 10 percent of the entire market. Just take the gift that is given and keep it moving.
Jeff Lange
Well-Known Member
The thing about it is that people did have a problem with it. I saw all of these discussions and issues people had with it before. In 2011-2012 when the FR-S was coming.
Jeff
- Banned
- #189
Name one joint venture that worked... Toyota has tried it for many many years and none of them ever worked well...
1) Geo/Chevy prism in the US
2) Toyota Cavalier in Japan
3) Pontiac Vibe in the US
4) Scion IA (Mazda 2) in the US
5) FRS / 86 .. although cool car was not a financial sucess.
Now why try this completely failed strategy with the halo car of all things. Oh well ..
1) Geo/Chevy prism in the US
2) Toyota Cavalier in Japan
3) Pontiac Vibe in the US
4) Scion IA (Mazda 2) in the US
5) FRS / 86 .. although cool car was not a financial sucess.
Now why try this completely failed strategy with the halo car of all things. Oh well ..
Modal170
Well-Known Member
So people could afford it?
I really think Toyota, not lexus, will avoid spending those big bucks to make an in house project because people buy toyota a whole lot more than lexus. Lexus gets bigger returns but hard to justify a luxury grand touring coupe in a dwindling market .
I just hope that this is the testing bed for a MKVI and having done all the hard work, can make an in house project at cheaper costs.
Doubt it
Jeff Lange
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- Banned
- #192
Not the same kind of JV and you know that.. where both parties resulted in a vehicle.
Toyota partnered with GM on a plant that crashed and burned too...
Jeff Lange
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You are correct, it's different, but Yamaha manufactured the entire 2000GT for Toyota.
NUMMI ended poorly, but was a successful plant for 25 years. I doubt it would have closed had it not been for GM backing out due to their Ch. 11 proceedings.
The Cavalier was just rebadged, not a jointly developed vehicle. Ditto for the iA/Yaris.
To be honest, I would say most of Toyota's joint ventures have worked out pretty well for Toyota. The 86, Aygo are both pretty decent in my opinion. The Matrix sold quite well during the Vibe years (Pontiac's version didn't really affect Toyota much).
I've not looked at iA/Yaris sales numbers to know much, but I'd say that's the only one on your list that is a potential problem for Toyota, and again it is not a jointly developed vehicle but a rebadged Mazda.
Objectively, Toyota doesn't have a lot of jointly developed vehicles to base success or failure on in my opinion.
Jeff
- Banned
- #194
Matrix / Vibe was great initially and that’s about it.. I was even surprised there was a gen 2.
Rebadged stuff were miserable ideas. IA did sell a bit better than iM but why use Mazda when Toyota had a ton of little cars to rebadge as a scion.
Cavalier was a masterpiece by GM that Toyota had to have.. lol
I was just saying that it’s one thing to have a JV for normal / regular cars and another for a halo model. Halo models are all about what a company is capable of making as well and that eye candy factor at a dealership.
HKz
Well-Known Member
how do you define failure....? Matrix/Vibe & the iA have had positive reviews..and how is the 86 not a financial success? In less than 3 years they sold the same number of S2000s sold over 10 years. They still continue to pour some money in the platform even though they really don't need to.
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