Reviews are in for 2020 Supra MKV preproduction car

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Jeff Lange

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Yeah personally, I feel that Toyota should use an existing engine in their arsenal, Lexus has a very capable V6... or a V8.... or even the 1.8t from the IS250T.... surely they can comeup with a 3.5 liter Twin Turbo version or tune the V6 to crank 250kw and 350Nm
Lexus has never had a 1.8t or a model called the IS250t.

I assume you mean the 2.0L Turbo 8AR-FTS in the IS200t/IS300 RWD. Getting details like that wrong in an argument about details doesn't bode well.

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RyanGT3RS

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At 45k to 50k range (4cyl spec Zupra) we have the following...

1) 2019 Mustang GT with 460hp and a 10spd auto that can go sub 4 seconds 0-60. Add performance pack 2 and itā€™ll shame anything BMW has built for Toyota.
2) 2018 Camaro SS 1LE with 455hp and an amazing handling pkg. Sorry.. I donā€™t see this level of performance from the BMW built Toyota either (basing it on the driving reviews)
3) 2019 Nissan 370Z at 45k with 350hp in the Nismo trim. Oldest of the bunch.. so letā€™s see how Nissan counters.
Then you have a host of other non direct competitors such as Q50 Redsport, new genesis 3 series fighter with a proper manual gearbox to name a few.

Besides... oh look a Zupra factor.. there is nothing going for this car.

Handling ... meh
Road comfort... good
Power... meh
Looks (outside)... fake vents
Looks (inside)... BMW

Why did you (Toyota) order such a pathetic specā€™d car from BMW?

Well, back in the day as in 97 and 98 you could buy a Camaro Z28/SS, or trans am for mid 20ā€™s and have better performance or equal to the mk4 Supra I recall. Those cars were making 320 hp with 5.7 V8ā€™s. Stock vs stock of course.

So, really nothing new here
 

Jdmuscle

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Well, back in the day as in 97 and 98 you could buy a Camaro Z28/SS, or trans am for mid 20ā€™s and have better performance or equal to the mk4 Supra I recall. Those cars were making 320 hp with 5.7 V8ā€™s. Stock vs stock of course.

So, really nothing new here
So here it goes... 97 Camaros top spec was 310hp and it weighed about the same as a Supra MKIV. Going by your argument.. the new Supra should be 450hp like the Camaro SS of today is.. however we are getting a mid 300hp car. So it ainā€™t the same... not even close. And I have no faith that this car will come close to the handling prowess of a SS1LE based on whatā€™s been said in the reviews thus far.
 
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So here it goes... 97 Camaros top spec was 310hp and it weighed about the same as a Supra MKIV. Going by your argument.. the new Supra should be 450hp like the Camaro SS of today is.. however we are getting a mid 300hp car. So it ainā€™t the same... not even close. And I have no faith that this car will come close to the handling prowess of a SS1LE based on whatā€™s been said in the reviews thus far.
Ya but the 1LE is also 3750lbs
 

Modal170

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So here it goes... 97 Camaros top spec was 310hp and it weighed about the same as a Supra MKIV. Going by your argument.. the new Supra should be 450hp like the Camaro SS of today is.. however we are getting a mid 300hp car. So it ainā€™t the same... not even close. And I have no faith that this car will come close to the handling prowess of a SS1LE based on whatā€™s been said in the reviews thus far.
While I don't like high HP cars as I feel there's only so much excitement that can be had on the roads legally, at the very least combat the competitors and for the people who only look at the numbers and doesn't even drive the car before purchasing blindly by giving a HP number they can brag about. Also, I'm certain over the 6 years of the 86 being on sale, he's heard endless complaints about power and turbos so I think he wouldn't want another case.
 

tha7osavage

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Okay so this video is interesting. around 16:55, youā€™ll hear Fredric AasbĆø mention that something else is coming. Hereā€™s a bit of context; prior to that comment, the JP Performance dude mentioned that he was expecting something more on par with the FT-1 instead of the ā€œsmallerā€ Supra.

Is there something else in the pipeline? Not sure how much insider information Fredric has, considering he didnā€™t find out about the Supra until few days before Jarama.

 

A70TTR

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I don't think Aasbo has the same access to Lexus content as they don't sponsor drifting (or him in general) etc.

He may have been speaking to the GR-SS however, unless he meant just as an enthusiast.

As far as how much he knows, probably a bit more than the public, but nothing crazy. he doesn't get a special pass really outside of these type of events and car allocation.
 
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https://autoweek.com/article/car-reviews/2020-toyota-supra-first-us-drive

2020 Toyota Supra first drive: Like nothing else, 'cept maybe the Z4

Does it live up to the hopes and dreams of the Toyota faithful? Mostly yes, in its own way


To understand the new Toyota Supra, the one that is due in showrooms in the first half of next year, you donā€™t so much have to understand the old Toyota Supra as you must grasp the next BMW Z4.

Itā€™s not as convoluted as it sounds.

The Supra, and Iā€™m not talking about those earlier Celica Supras because, sorry owners, those donā€™t count, but the A70 and A80 Supras, those built from 1986 to 1993 and from 1993 to 2002, those were front-engine, rear-drive cars that had all the fixin's of a Japanese muscle car. Their powerful straight sixes, especially those from the last generation cars, were overbuilt to the point that tuners were getting over 1,000 hp out of them. One that I got a ride in years ago made 1,100 hp. If you ever went to one of those dyno competitions where builders compete for raw output and spectators stand a safe distance away in case everything suddenly goes kablooie, then you know what Iā€™m talking about. They were muscle cars first and sports cars a close second. Interest in them had grown in recent times, perhaps encouraging Toyota to make another one.

But development of an all-new, small-volume semi-supercar is expensive, and even with a booming economy and lots of people with lots of disposable income, it was prohibitive. Luckily, on the other side of the world, BMW was thinking the same thing, not about making a muscle car or a supercar but a successor to the Z4 cabriolet. How fortuitous! So the two companies got together, co-developing, as the official wording goes, the basic platform and drivetrain before splitting off in the last four years to their respective sides of the planet to fine-tune the suspensions and bodies of what would become their own unique creations: Toyotaā€™s Supra coupe and BMWā€™s Z4 cabriolet.

As of right this minute I canā€™t tell you much about the BMW Z4. But I can tell you something about the new Supra. I was lucky enough to get to drive one around the road course on the infield of Texas Motor Speedway yesterday, a crankshaftā€™s throw away from Toyotaā€™s new U.S. headquarters in nearby Plano. I was further lucky enough to be driving the first U.S. spec version of the car. Earlier drives you may have seen were in European-spec cars on a European track in, thatā€™s right, Europe. This would not only be an American car on an American track but a U.S. spec car in Texas, by God!

Granted, the difference in performance between Europe and the U.S. Supras will not be that much. The Euro cars have an extra particulate filter thingy in their exhaust systems that we in America will not have to deal with. Specific info on this was limited, but we do know that the lack of this filter on U.S. cars frees up the exhaust enough that we may get a slight boost in horsepower over them. So we should consider ourselves lucky, even if itā€™s only a few hp lucky.

Likewise, the information that Toyota has officially revealed is still scant, which is understandable considering the new car wonā€™t be here till sometime in the first half of 2019. We know the engine will be a 3.0-liter straight six with a single, twin-scroll turbocharger making, ā€œMore than 300 DIN HP.ā€ The carā€™s 0-60 time will be, ā€œUnder 5 seconds.ā€ The configuration will be front-engine rear-drive and the weight balance will be 50/50.

A few other things Toyota has released:
  • The suspension will include adaptive variable dampers as standard equipment. A button on the center console will switch the setup between normal and sport modes. ā€œThe damping force is optimized at each wheel according to road conditions and driver inputs, and operation has no negative impact on the carā€™s ride and handling quality.ā€
  • Hitting the sport button will: make throttle response ā€œmore direct and aggressive,ā€ the automatic transmission will shift faster, the adaptive suspension will tighten up, the electric power steering will be faster, and the active differential will be ā€œoptimized for traction and cornering balance.ā€
  • Yes, there is an electronically actuated active differential. It can send as much as 100 percent of torque to either rear wheel of this rear wheel-drive car as needed for exiting corners with maximum grip. But it is a two-way diff, so it also unwinds appropriately going into corners to maintain stability on deceleration.
  • The steel and aluminum body is designed to be as taut as possible, with rigidity Toyota says exceeds that of the carbon fiber Lexus LFA.
  • Tires are super-sporty Michelin Pilot Super Sports, 255/40R19 front and 275/35R19 rear. So youā€™ll be getting good grip.
  • Brakes are four-pot Brembos, and even the brake booster is ā€œoptimized.ā€
  • On the Toyota side, the new Supra is a product of Gazoo Racing in Japan, the same group that won Le Mans most recently. Chief engineer on the Supra was no less than Tetsuda Tada, who was also chief engineer of the Toyota 86, much beloved by sports car drivers on a budget. That alone should be reassuring to sporty car aspirers. But now, as Tatsuda-san said, ā€œNumbers are one thing, feelings are another.ā€

Which brings us back to the infield road course at Texas Motor Speedway. Iā€™d get 20 laps in two ten-lap increments in the parts departmentā€™s Supra. This far out from production, these things are far from ubiquitous. So the generosity of the parts department must be acknowledged. Thank you, parts department. Like the cars from the European drive earlier, this one was a very early prototype. That meant I couldnā€™t look at the unfinished and camouflaged interior, which was still largely unassembled anyway. The outside of my car had black and white camouflage, but I was forbidden to photograph this car. So the shots you see here are of the European cars, which, apart from that exhaust and maybe some side marker lights, are pretty much the same.

My driving coach would be no less a driving hero than Craig Stanton, who has won in everything from dirt bikes to LMP1 prototypes to Porsche GT3s to various Baja racers. My first Supra laps were in the passenger seat as Stanton walloped the car around the road course to make sure everything was still on the car. Earlier in the day heā€™d done several miles on the track to bed in the new brakes. This particular car had zero miles on the odometer the morning of my drive. By the time Stanton was taking those warmup laps the odometer read maybe 20.

From the passengerā€™s seat you can really feel the quick acceleration. The official 0-60 of ā€œunder 5 secondsā€ could also mean ā€œclose to four secondsā€ for all I knew. Sure felt possible. Likewise, the car cornered flatter than I was expecting. Chief engineer Tada-san said the team developed the car using what he calls the ā€œGolden Ratio.ā€ No, that is not a drinking game. It is the ratio between the wheelbase, track and the height of the carā€™s center of gravity. The Supra has a wider track, relatively shorter wheelbase and a lower center of gravity than, say, the 86, or any number of other sports cars Tada listed.

Thus, when I got behind the wheel I could immediately sense that this was a different kind of sports car, even though my first ten laps were in normal mode, and were perhaps less impressive from a handling point of view than I was prepared for. The suspension was not as taut as Iā€™d been expecting. The shifts were slower too, even though I was using the paddle-shifters to go between second, third and fourth, as the short, tight track required.

Ten laps down we pulled into the pits and Stanton had the team reduce tire pressures from 41 to 39 all around, the idea being to get a better contact patch at each corner. Then he reached over from the passengerā€™s seat, hit the sport button and we went back out.

Instant sports car! Right away the steering felt alive, the revs were higher and the suspension was far more responsive. This is the button you want to use for spirited driving.

In faster corners, the active diff not only eliminated any wheelspin exiting corners, even the 150-degree squeaker on the north end of the track, and likewise eliminated rear-end wandering coming into the corner. It even did this better than some supercars Iā€™ve driven on race tracks, I dare say.

The Supra felt like it turned quicker, rotated faster and got out of corners with more immediacy than any of the previous Supras, certainly, but it also stood apart from your generic, garden variety ā€œsports car.ā€ The setup indeed felt square, if thatā€™s even a term, not like a long-wheelbase sports car - or even a regular-wheelbase sports car. This did not translate to instability in a straight line, but a unique feel not unlikeā€¦ hey, a BMW Z4! While BMW has never, as far as I know, described a Golden Ratio for any previous Z4, that carā€™s shorter-than-average wheelbase did give it a feel like this Supra. The difference with this new car, of course, was that this was not powered by a 1.9-liter four-cylinder, as a previous-generation Z3 had been, but by this powerful 3.0-liter turbo straight six. It was as if BMW and Toyota had created a really powerful go kart. Youā€™ve driven go karts, imagine a larger one with about four times more power and torque.

At least thatā€™s an initial impression from a very early prototype. Later drives will be even more sorted than this one. Thereā€™ll also be much more information coming in the next months, including full specs, a drive of a production car and maybe even pricing. Right now, as far as pricing goes thereā€™s a vague notion that itā€™ll cost over $50,000. Where that fits into the sports car market is also something that has to be sorted out. Maybe the only competition will be the BMW Z4, its fraternal twin. In any case, this is not going to be like anything else on the market ā€“ except the Z4. And with the Supraā€™s permanent, fixed roof adding more torsional rigidity, it might have that one beat. Letā€™s see what we learn next.

ON SALE: First half of 2019
BASE PRICE: More than $50,000
AS TESTED PRICE: Priceless
POWERTRAIN: 3.0-liter, single twin-scroll turbocharged straight six, eight-speed automatic, rear wheel-drive
OUTPUT: More than 300 hp
CURB WEIGHT: Less than 3300 pounds
0-60 MPH: Less than 5 seconds
PROS: Big engine, small car, very promising
CONS: Only a prototype, must wait for production
 

redspencer

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That's a surprisingly very glowing review and a stark contrast to the lukewarm reviews from the euro-spec Supra test drive in Madrid. Hopefully we'll see more reviews of the prototype USDM Supra very soon.
 

justbake

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That's a surprisingly very glowing review and a stark contrast to the lukewarm reviews from the euro-spec Supra test drive in Madrid. Hopefully we'll see more reviews of the prototype USDM Supra very soon.
It was only the MT review that wasnt great yet a handful of members lost their cool while ignoring every other review
 

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Then he reached over from the passengerā€™s seat, hit the sport button and we went back out.

Instant sports car! Right away the steering felt alive, the revs were higher and the suspension was far more responsive. This is the button you want to use for spirited driving.
Millennial comment here, I like how the Supra goes Super Sayian with the push of a button. I wonder how Sport+ is going to be....
 
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