Why I'm NOT Hyped About The New Toyota Supra

upnsmoke

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I can confirm a lot of experienced Toyota engineers, japanese at that, work for Lexus now... they even eat at the same cafeteria in Toyota City.

So they are only "separate entities" for marketing purposes ONLY.... so Lexus buyers dont get that "Expensive Camry" image when shopping for cars.
With that said, Lexus are even tighter when it comes to quality control... so I would absolutely no doubt choose a Lexus, assuming all things are equal performance wise and functionality wise with its European competitors... if I want a problem free car that can last 15+ years

hence I am considering an LC500 when its "affordable" down here as I can keep it as a classic.... good condition mechanically and externally classic... in 20 years time... heck even RCF could be a collectors... the first ISF would be too IMO
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Toyota has the money to build whatever they want, when they want, and where they want. When people tell me “they are trying to do what makes the most sense financially”, well then why on earth earth did they build an LFA that made zero profit (yes zero) and was actually a loss for the company? How about the millions invested in RC-F or GS-F?? Who’s buying those horrendous frankenstien mobiles?? It seems like there is a major problem at Toyota...I believe it’s the idiots in upper management they are bringing in who have no clue what we (the true loyalists and fans) want. The previous Supra’s were so great because they had genuine Toyota folks engineering and researching them. The new crowd at Toyota is a like the united nations all with different ideas and visions, disagreeing with each other until someone says, “lets just put a piece of everything in it so everyone will shut up and be happy.” BAM! MKV Supra! The biggest reason this car is and will continue to be a failure is because it is not Japanese! Guff once said in one of his videos, that the FT-1 was “distinctly Japanese”....and while I agree with him on the idea of FT-1, the MKV Supra is distinctly German. Toyota keeps fucken up, I don’t know why. They wanted to resurrect the AE86 which was a Toyota, but decided to label it a Scion and call it an FR-S??? Lmao! You idiots, the whole point of the car was to resurrect the the AE86 name, so not only did you not put a Toyota inline four in it, but you called it a Scion FRS, only to re-name it a GT-86. You wonder why Scion collapsed?? Anyways....my fingers hurt from typing :coffee:.
Didn't have a comp to type. Gonna just do a quick summary.

Toyota/Lexus made the LFa over a long period as an exercise of training engineers with the highest tech at the time and make them change from the monotomy of Camry's and Lexus Is to see what a super car can be and the work needed to make it happen. Sort of like a passion project hoping to trickle down the tech to the most basic of cars so when it's time to gear up for something sporty, not sports car, but sporty, we get the LC500. And soon, the LCF

The RCF and GFS were just the same parts used by Lexus that were left overs and not really a brand new vehicle/platform. The LC500 is as much a new vehicle and any car in the Lexus lineup can't really compare. As for the company and the bigheads, they didn't get there by trying to be enthusiasts or appealing to them. That's not how you make money. Why appeal to five percent of the market who wants a sports car when you can whore out on camry's and corollas and crossovers to make money? I'm seeing CHR, Lexus IS and the occasional RX everywhere around my city and very little 86's. This is where the dough is. Not speaking for myself, speaking in their shoes and they probably agree whole-heatedly.

The bore stroke on the GT86 were 86 MM to tie in with the name and spiritual successor to the AE86 and also wanted to revitalize a true, inexpensive sports car. They used the car as a Scion brand in the hopes to fix the brand in the US. Should have been a GT86 from the start, but I'm not in charge of Toyota USA. They are the reason we have TRD to begin with and no Gazoo.
 

PerformanceSound

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I can confirm a lot of experienced Toyota engineers, japanese at that, work for Lexus now... they even eat at the same cafeteria in Toyota City.

So they are only "separate entities" for marketing purposes ONLY.... so Lexus buyers dont get that "Expensive Camry" image when shopping for cars.
With that said, Lexus are even tighter when it comes to quality control... so I would absolutely no doubt choose a Lexus, assuming all things are equal performance wise and functionality wise with its European competitors... if I want a problem free car that can last 15+ years

hence I am considering an LC500 when its "affordable" down here as I can keep it as a classic.... good condition mechanically and externally classic... in 20 years time... heck even RCF could be a collectors... the first ISF would be too IMO
Why are the cars that everyone talks about and wants or pursues cars of their past (SC300, IS300, LS400, Supra, MR-2, 100 Series and older LandCruisers, 3rd Gen 4Runners, AE86, Celica All Trac's, etc...). No one cares about the RC-F, IS-F, GS-F, etc.. because they are "forgettable cars." It's true, the BMW M3/M4 outsells the RC-F 3-to-1...I don't even think the RC-F is considered a competitor to the M3/M4 to be honest. GS-F??? When was the last time you saw a publication praising that car, heck, when was the last time you heard anyone mention a GS-F??? It will soon be dust in the wind. IS-F is dead my man...it was a cool idea back when there was a V8 war going on, but it's complex hardware for tuning made it a car not worth pursuing not only new but even used (unless you get them dirt cheap). Other competitors have moved on...embracing turbo technology. Toyota is still stuck on the same engine platform....WTF??? The one car that Toyota could have really hit the jack pot on and scored unbelievably on is the Supra....and they got it wrong in so many ways. I'm not kidding when I say, "I feel like there are secret agents working for Toyota who are there to run the company to the ground." This happens...engineers, VP's, managers, etc... get around like (you know what), with some holding grudges and taking them out on companies like Toyota. This happens! Toyota and Lexus built the LC500....great looking car indeed. How well is it selling? Well enough for Lexus to offer $5000+ cash back incentives?? Imagine the LC500 with a V6TT without all the bells and whistles, with a Toyota interior, and some weight loss. THAT would be a fantastic Supra....even looks like a modern Supra. Instead, they are talking about putting a V8TT and selling it for close to $200k. WTF??? A new R36 Nissan will walk all over this car for half the price. Get real Toyota, your not fooling anyone anymore...
 
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PerformanceSound

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Didn't have a comp to type. Gonna just do a quick summary.

Toyota/Lexus made the LFa over a long period as an exercise of training engineers with the highest tech at the time and make them change from the monotomy of Camry's and Lexus Is to see what a super car can be and the work needed to make it happen. Sort of like a passion project hoping to trickle down the tech to the most basic of cars so when it's time to gear up for something sporty, not sports car, but sporty, we get the LC500. And soon, the LCF

The RCF and GFS were just the same parts used by Lexus that were left overs and not really a brand new vehicle/platform. The LC500 is as much a new vehicle and any car in the Lexus lineup can't really compare. As for the company and the bigheads, they didn't get there by trying to be enthusiasts or appealing to them. That's not how you make money. Why appeal to five percent of the market who wants a sports car when you can whore out on camry's and corollas and crossovers to make money? I'm seeing CHR, Lexus IS and the occasional RX everywhere around my city and very little 86's. This is where the dough is. Not speaking for myself, speaking in their shoes and they probably agree whole-heatedly.

The bore stroke on the GT86 were 86 MM to tie in with the name and spiritual successor to the AE86 and also wanted to revitalize a true, inexpensive sports car. They used the car as a Scion brand in the hopes to fix the brand in the US. Should have been a GT86 from the start, but I'm not in charge of Toyota USA. They are the reason we have TRD to begin with and no Gazoo.
So then if all they care about is money making SUV's and small sedans....why do they even want to pursue building non-profiting cars like the RC-F, GS-F, etc...??? If it's about money, did they not learn their lesson with the IS-F??? Why not build fast SUV's like the Germans or Americans?? I bet they would sell more RX-F's with V8's in them than RC-F's or GS-F's ever could. I know why they built the LFA, I know for engineering exercises...but they didn't need to make a run of them. A few examples would have been fine, prototypes, 10 to 20 examples. However, to build 500 cars as non-profiting examples is stupid....don't you agree? Toyota is going through some depressing time indeed....something is not right over there.
 

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"I feel like there are secret agents working for Toyota who are their to run the company to the ground."
Sooo... Toyota is infiltrated by Hydra?

A new R36 Nissan will walk all over this car for half the price. Get real Toyota, your not fooling anyone anymore...
Was waiting on the daily dose of R35/R36, looks like I found it.
 

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What I'm about to say is all based on speculation the rumors suggest is coming:

The truth is; there's a pill Toyota is giving us to swallow with this car and that is 'at least the Supra name is coming back into line up'. I'm not an insider so I don't know what goes on inside their chain of command. However, PerformanceSound has summarized a lot of what has been seen from a consumer stand point from Toyota/Lexus for almost the past 2 decades. I do think it will be a good car at the end of the day. Reliable? we'll see...But it just seems like they missed the specialty factor with this car. I get it as a business you want to maximize profits and they wanted to create a sports car to replace the 2000GT/Supra's of the past. Toyota has money and could have taken a risk with this car to make a 'Supra' if that's the car they really wanted to produce and shock the car world. This car is more 50%+ BMW than it is Toyota. So in reality the reason to buy this car over a Z4/M2/M3/M4 would be for the exterior looks + some interior pieces, perhaps the suspension tuning which could make the car drive different as well or for the fact that you are buying a Supra*. But they could have made a statement with this car especially since the last MKIV did just that although sales did not reflect it at the time but to this day we all know the car itself really did. They took a chance back in the 90's. Fast forward to today I'm sure Tada San and his staff behind this did the best they could with the resources APPROVED by upper management within Toyota/BMW. But what has been said to be coming doesn't sound extremely special when combining it with the Supra name, possibly another missed opportunity by Toyota...

Questions that may haunt Toyota in the future:
- Was the 'Supra' not special enough to have kept molding it all in house???
- Should we have gone with a different name???
- Money > Heritage???
 
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PerformanceSound

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What I'm about to say is all based on speculation the rumors suggest is coming:

The truth is; there's a pill Toyota is giving us to swallow with this car and that is 'at least the Supra name is coming back into line up'. I'm not an insider so I don't know what goes on inside their chain of command. However, PerformanceSound has summarized a lot of what has been seen from a consumer stand point from Toyota/Lexus for almost the past 2 decades. I do think it will be a good car at the end of the day. Reliable? we'll see...But it just seems like they missed the specialty factor with this car. I get it as a business you want to maximize profits and they wanted to create a sports car to replace the 2000GT/Supra's of the past. Toyota has money and could have taken a risk with this car to make a 'Supra' if that's the car they really wanted to produce and shock the car world. This car is more 50%+ BMW than it is Toyota. So in reality the reason to buy this car over a Z4/M2/M3/M4 would be for the exterior looks + some interior pieces, perhaps the suspension tuning which could make the car drive different as well or for the fact that you are buying a Supra*. But they could have made a statement with this car especially since the last MKIV did just that although sales did not reflect it at the time but to this day we all now the car itself really did. They took a chance back in the 90's. Fast forward to today I'm sure Tada San and his staff behind this did the best they could with the resources APPROVED by upper management within Toyota/BMW. But what has been said to be coming doesn't sound extremely special when combining it with the Supra name, possibly another missed opportunity by Toyota...

Questions that may haunt Toyota in the future:
- Was the 'Supra' not special enough to have kept molding it all in house???
- Should we have gone with a different name???
- Money > Heritage???
Right....This is the confusing aspect of things as a consumer. Why did they pursue this project in the manner that they did? Was a BMW collaboration worth degrading the vehicles name and historical significance in the automotive world to save some money? The Supra has a greater cult following than an LFA, why did the LFA get the green light to be built in house as a non-profitable super limited production run? They came out with new models; RC-F, GS-F, etc.. however, are these even actual players in today's automotive arena? What is causing Toyota to shy away from building amazing successors? The AE86 is revered for it's name and the Toyota inline four engine. Toyota did the opposite with the GT-86 for it's target audience...they labeled it a FR-S and gave it a Subaru motor. How is that a AE86 successor? Same with the MKV Supra. They have lost their touch....damn shame to be honest. The damn Civic is doing amazing things now for gods sake.
 

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Can't wait til the 3rd brother is announced.
Haha...I know, I was thinking the same earlier today. The new MR2 will be probably have a Alfa Romeo body, Mazda engine, and be built in Bulgaria. RIP Japanese legends.
 

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Wouldn't it be easier for Toyota to work with Lotus for the platform since Lotus uses Toyo's V6?
 

Syed Shah

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the way some of you guys talk, you could convince someone who has never driven a bmw that they are the most unreliable cars that have ever been made... i mean we’ve had a 640d gran coupe and a few 3/4 series BMWs in the family and they haven’t skipped a beat.. but my 16’ toyota hilux (being a toyota some of you guys think it will never die) needed some work done to it within 25k miles..

if you’re not happy with the supra and think the r35 will piss all over it, then please do yourself a favour and buy a r35. Im pretty sure toyota wont go bust if you don’t buy the supra.. lol
 

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the way some of you guys talk, you could convince someone who has never driven a bmw that they are the most unreliable cars that have ever been made... i mean we’ve had a 640d gran coupe and a few 3/4 series BMWs in the family and they haven’t skipped a beat.. but my 16’ toyota hilux (being a toyota some of you guys think it will never die) needed some work done to it within 25k miles..

if you’re not happy with the supra and think the r35 will piss all over it, then please do yourself a favour and buy a r35. Im pretty sure toyota wont go bust if you don’t buy the supra.. lol
Haha....and I bet that Toyota Hilux is your beater car that sees all kinds of shitty weather and abuse and the BMW's are your garage queens right? It is a proven fact that BMW cars and motors are crap...even hardcore BMW enthusiasts say this. Why they still sell is beyond reliability and durability. BMW cars continue to sell because they are a fashion statement....they are huge signs on wheels that tell other people, "I have more money than brains." Unfortunately, in today's society, showing off sells (keeping up with the Jones') and by buying BMW's and other unreliable Euro luxury brands, you are telling everyone you are "well off." Because let's be frank here for a minute right? If I tell you that the smaller apple on the left costs $1, and the bigger apple on the right costs $5...yet, the smaller apple will be worth $50 in a month, would you still buy the bigger apple? An everyday logical person would say, "f**k the big apple, gimme the smaller one." However, the "upper class" person would probably say "I really don't care, gimme the bigger apple." The same logic applies to cars. People who drive their BMW's everyday have issues with their cars....I know this because I have close friends who work for BMW dealerships as techs. I also have friends who own BMW M cars and hear their frustrations all the time. I have driven many BMW's...means nothing. It's why a 1994 Supra Turbo 6spd with 200k miles costs $36k and a 2013 M5 costs $36k.
 
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the way some of you guys talk, you could convince someone who has never driven a bmw that they are the most unreliable cars that have ever been made... i mean we’ve had a 640d gran coupe and a few 3/4 series BMWs in the family and they haven’t skipped a beat.. but my 16’ toyota hilux (being a toyota some of you guys think it will never die) needed some work done to it within 25k miles..

if you’re not happy with the supra and think the r35 will piss all over it, then please do yourself a favour and buy a r35. Im pretty sure toyota wont go bust if you don’t buy the supra.. lol
What is a good indicator of reliability? Regretfully enough, resale value.

We are not happy with the "intended" supra because it lacks market optimization. The direction it is heading towards does not align with market. It needs to catch up already when it hits the ground.

Power is dismal compared to others.
Price is excessive compared to others.

Why do you think price and power comes up so often in these forums?
 

Syed Shah

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Haha....and I bet that Toyota Hilux is your beater car that sees all kinds of shitty weather and abuse and the BMW's are your garage queens right? It is a proven fact that BMW cars and motors are crap...even hardcore BMW enthusiasts say this. Why they still sell is beyond reliability and durability. BMW cars continue to sell because they are a fashion statement....they are huge signs on wheels that tell other people, "I have more money than brains." Unfortunately, in today's society, showing off sells (keeping up with the Jones') and by buying BMW's and other unreliable Euro luxury brands, you are telling everyone you are "well off." Because let's be frank here for a minute right? If I tell you that the smaller apple on the left costs $1, and the bigger apple on the right costs $5...yet, the smaller apple will be worth $50 in a month, would you still buy the bigger apple? An everyday logical person would say, "f**k the big apple, gimme the smaller one." However, the "upper class" person would probably say "I really don't care, gimme the bigger apple." The same logic applies to cars. People who drive their BMW's everyday have issues with their cars....I know this because I have close friends who work for BMW dealerships as techs. I also have friends who own BMW M cars and here their frustrations all the time. I have driven many BMW's...means nothing. It's why a 1994 Supra Turbo 6spd with 200k miles costs $36k and a 2013 M5 costs $36k.
Actually, my hilux is not a beater vehicle lol. My beater vehicle is an Audi a4 (hasnt skipped a beat either and ive covered nearly 15k in under 10 months so far). Hilux is in top condition and very far from a beater..

Quite frankly, the bimmers are the daily use cars.. the hilux gets used the least out of the lot. Bimmers have given us 0 issues at all, hassle free. & they have been there for a few years now.

Plus your logic of driving a german brand meaning being a show off is kind of ridiculous tbh. The Germans make better cars than the japanese and that has been the case for a while lol. If you think otherwise then please dont reply back because i just cba.
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