Why I'm NOT Hyped About The New Toyota Supra

BRX said:

Forget the power figures, what else does BMW currently offer that is a turbo inline 6 other than the B58? If it's not identical to the Z4/MKV engine it wouldn't be that far off. Probably over 90% similar.

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I guess I am confused on what the surprise is to you. I thought this was common knowledge

The supra is going to have a B58. Almost every car in the BMW lineup has a B58 as an option. Therefore it should be no surprise the the supra have the same motor as almost every car in the BMW lineup

PerformanceSound said:

I only liked the photo because there is a 2000GT in it.

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I'm not as hyped about it anymore ever since Toyota collab'd with BMW. I wouldn't dare put a deposit on any 1st year production car yet alone a Toyota with BMW parts. I still want to drive it around the track to see what it's made of. I still have my eye on the prize, 997.2 GT3/GT3RS.

DesmoSD said:

I'm not as hyped about it anymore ever since Toyota collab'd with BMW. I wouldn't dare put a deposit on any 1st year production car yet alone a Toyota with BMW parts. I still want to drive it around the track to see what it's made of. I still have my eye on the prize, 997.2 GT3/GT3RS.

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DesmoSD... how do you like your Panigale? I'm thinking of buying one at the beginning of the year. I have a 1098S currently and love the way it rides, but love the lines of the Panigale. I've heard mixed reviews for the Pani, so I figured I'd ask you

DesmoSD said:

I still have my eye on the prize, 997.2 GT3/GT3RS.

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Keep your eyes on a 997 buddy....sad to say that those days of a Supra being a 911 competitor are over. Folks will be lucky if the car competes against 370Z's.

I can already hear the "usual" folks typing a "...why are you negative" response. Here we go...here we go.

PerformanceSound said:

Keep your eyes on a 997 buddy....sad to say that those days of a Supra being a 911 competitor are over. Folks will be lucky if the car competes against 370Z's.

I can already hear the "usual" folks typing a "...why are you negative" response. Here we go...here we go.

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You do understand they can say the same of you right? Any review, update, or post

“Oh man, I can hear him now typing on why my moment of excitement is wrong”

You can keep posting that stuff, it’s your right, go for it but before you make comments like that remember you’re on a forum about a car that you don’t even plan on buying nor are even interested in whereas they are on an appropriate forum for their interest and excitement. If any comment deserves the “eye roll comments” it’s yours

twntrbo03' said:

DesmoSD... how do you like your Panigale? I'm thinking of buying one at the beginning of the year. I have a 1098S currently and love the way it rides, but love the lines of the Panigale. I've heard mixed reviews for the Pani, so I figured I'd ask you

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I also had a 07 1098 Base and sold it last year. I have the '13 S when Ducati offered the ABS version and fixed all of the minor issues with the '12's.

I like the Panigale over the trellis Superbikes in every aspect except for riding on the street. It's a more refined/updated motorcycle in the Ducati evolution of their Superbike lineup but that monocoque frame and ergos are too much for me when it comes to normal street riding and upright riding. Below 4K is very rough and cruising along in 1st will tend to buck. I'd normally ride the 1098 over the Pani majority of the time and it even got to the point where I converted the Pani to a track bike with Sharkskinz bodywork, DP parts, Motoholders subframe, DEI gold wrapping around the tank and seat, fairing stay, Lightech R rearsets and raised the rear 5mm with 200/60's SC3 slick's. The bike belongs on the track and I've ridden Laguna Seca, Thunderhilll, Sonoma, Chuckwalla, Pahrump and Willow Springs. Dave Moss has helped me dial in the suspension and bike runs very well.

The 1299 would be a better choice just like how they released the 1098 and then refined it with the 1198. I wish mine had the downshift DQS which was added on the 1299 but the upshift will suffice.

As a Ducati owner, you know they have all have their fair share of issues and heat is major issue. I haven't ridden the V4 yet but from what I've been reading on the Ducati forum, it too has it's 1st year production bugs.

PerformanceSound said:

Keep your eyes on a 997 buddy....sad to say that those days of a Supra being a 911 competitor are over. Folks will be lucky if the car competes against 370Z's.

I can already hear the "usual" folks typing a "...why are you negative" response. Here we go...here we go.

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I absolutely hear ya! We all have our options and views on this car and we're all entitled to have one; that's what makes a forum so dynamic. I mean, look at the replies about the MKV on Supraforums...

I was the one who went to Cars and Coffee in Irvine at 5am to see the red FT-1 unload off the truck (it even attracted a bigger crowd then the F40 that was parked near it) AND to Pebble to see the gun metal gray FT-1 on the concept lawn. Just like the GT86, I was immediately let down when Toyota announced that they were going the "Eclipse/Talon" or "Starion/Conquest" the FT86. Now it's history is repeating itself again with the Supra/Z4.

BMW's Thermal test track is in SoCal so hopefully it'll be available for demo drives.



Thanks! The 997 is considered the "goldilocks" of the 911 family. Prices have dipped enough for reg folks to enjoy the Porsche experience. I get the balance and driving aspect since mine is 355hp @ 3175 lbs. The car rips in the canyons and at the track. With my Supra, I was fighting that front end dive and targa flex when I used to drive through the canyons.

https://www.total911.com/opinion-seven-reasons-the-997-is-the-best-generation-911/

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cu...e-997-carrera-s-is-the-perfect-first-porsche/

When I first read that Tada wants to benchmark it after the Cayman, I gave Toyota an A for effort. I get what they are trying to do and the hurdles that they are currently going through but those who have driven the Cayman, esp the GT4 or 911 know they are in a whole different ballpark.

2JZ-No-Sh*t said:

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The bald guy in the video is how I feel about the new Supra....how "all the elements of the car just don't come together right." For me, it's always been the pride of owning a Japanese made car...a car to demonstrate what the engineering potential is for it's automaker. The reason I am not impressed with this MKV Supra is because there is no "WOW" factor right? The engine isn't special, the transmission isn't special, the rear end isn't special, the interior isn't special, etc... There is nothing that screams special about this car, other than the hype of a new Supra....which was started by it's predecessors. Toyota took a motor built by one manufacturer, and stuffed it in a chassis made by another manufacturer, and stamped a Toyota badge on it....that is not showcasing a automakers engineering potential. I know I talk shit about German cars, but even with German cars....if I ever own a German car, it will be a German made German car and not an American made German car (X5, etc..).

For those who own Supra's now (especially the MKIV's)....if they are "old technology" or "outdated", would you sell or trade your car for the MKV Supra? If not, why???

Jabba said:

I think PerformanceSound is hilarious. Everyone needs a voice to point out the short falls in things to look at the picture for all it's ups and downs. The execution is annoying at times, but this is the internet.

There is some truth to the speeches, and most of us internally hope the new Supra will have more Toyota in it then what has been released so far. But, ultimately the car ain't out yet. Which is why most of us are here. And to all the MKIV worshiping all I could say is, nostalgia is a blinding drug.

Funny thing about the NISMO GTR. I remember watching a video by Motor Trend ,when they used to post on YouTube, doing a Head to Head episode with the AMG GTR against the NISMO GTR on Laguna Seca Raceway. And the AMG beat the NISMO by 2 secs flat. Now, I know excuses could be made like Randy Pobst can't drive, Laguna Seca is a terrible track to test on, or Motor trend is bias. But I would bet my last dollar, that if the NISMO beat the AMG all excuses would magically disappear.

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I’ve driven both nismo gtr and AMG gtr, and I would pick the AMG. I prefer the V8, the looks, the steering, and feel of the car. Also comes in GREEN Roughly the same price too, just don’t go crazy on options on the Mercedes. Lol.

Syed Shah said:

The new GTR is known more as a poor mans super car.. Unless its tuned, it struggles against a RWD M6 Gran Coupe, which both looks a class better and has a superior interior...

The previous gen GTRs are the only worthwhile GTR’s. The current gen is stuck between trying to be accepted as a super car but also struggling against heavier 5 door cars... Only reason why the Nissan GTR is doing well is because of its tuneability..

Besides, the Supra hasn’t even come out. Apart from you I really dont see anyone calling it a failure... all reviews so far have been positive lol.

Atleast let the car come out before passing judgement every other minute about how shite it is. We haven’t even seen the interior properly ffs

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Struggles? Not sure where the hell you heard that. The M6 is near nismo money, yet still gets absolutely slaughtered by base model GTR trims in literally every category (0-everything, braking, skidpad g force, figure 8 times, track times, etc) by a significant margin. The massive carbon ceramic brakes looked cool, but after driving one, the brakes are horrible, stopping the damn thing felt like a Herculean effort. Seriously, trying to stop the thing felt like I was in my big ass X6.

I think both cars are ass ugly, so not sure I can comment on that statistic, and having bought what's often referred to as the ugliest "SAV" in the world, I don't have much credibility in the beauty department. The interior is much much better though.

Honestly, Nissan has failed to continue to enhance the GTR in a worthwhile way to keep up with the price hikes and the years though. I haven't bought a used car in a very long time, being someone that wants the latest and the greatest, but should the MKV be as big a disappointment as I'm fearing, there's absolutely no reason to buy a new GTR for 110k vs a 50k used one that is the exact same car.

PerformanceSound said:

The bald guy in the video is how I feel about the new Supra....how "all the elements of the car just don't come together right." For me, it's always been the pride of owning a Japanese made car...a car to demonstrate what the engineering potential is for it's automaker. The reason I am not impressed with this MKV Supra is because there is no "WOW" factor right? The engine isn't special, the transmission isn't special, the rear end isn't special, the interior isn't special, etc... There is nothing that screams special about this car, other than the hype of a new Supra....which was started by it's predecessors. Toyota took a motor built by one manufacturer, and stuffed it in a chassis made by another manufacturer, and stamped a Toyota badge on it....that is not showcasing a automakers engineering potential. I know I talk shit about German cars, but even with German cars....if I ever own a German car, it will be a German made German car and not an American made German car (X5, etc..).

For those who own Supra's now (especially the MKIV's)....if they are "old technology" or "outdated", would you sell or trade your car for the MKV Supra? If not, why???

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@PerformanceSound , at first i thought your post were really negative but the longer i lurked on this forum, and the more it started to look like exactly what i feared it would be (a reskinned z4). I come to agree with you on alot of things you pointed out and i kinda feel the same way about the car overall I wouldnt trade my MKIV for a MKV and heres why.

The MKIV quickly became one of my favorite imports, yes a large part of that was due to its popularity in movies and games but it wasn't till i actually got to drive one that i became infatuated with it. I've owned a few imports and id have to say every time i get in this car i take a moment to sit and admire it, every time i get out the car i always take second and look at it and think to myself, man i love this car. Everything from the selfish space like interior thats curved and directed to me, to the reliability, to the amazing power train. For as long as i've been in the car scene and racing ive never deal with such an awesome motor. Out of all the imports ive owned the supra and 2JZ paltform have been the pinnacle for power and tune ability, it made so much power with so little, and the way it sounds, GOD makes my pants really tight LOL. I mean next to the LSx its probably the most swapped motor, ive seen them in Hondas, Mazdas, Subarus, BMWs, shit i've seen them in Foxbody mustangs, crown vics and Box chevys lol. You dont see people swapping the N or S series BMW motors unless they're within the manufacturer car line up. That speaks volumes on the engineering behind the JZ motor platform. Its crazy to see how awesome this motor is and what records it could break, not to mention the chassis is quite remarkable and has is fair share of professional racing class victories.

I'd have to say, at first i was okay with the BMW partnership, i thought to myself, well if Toyota plans to bring the supra back it should be RWD and I6, and since Toyota's been out of the I6 game for a long time, it would make sense SINCE BMWs still making performance inline 6s. Im not gonna discredit the N54/N55 platforms because i think they are good and make pretty good power and have great tune-ability, they've been called modern day supras etc etc, but, as ive gone on to think about what the MKIV Supra meant to me and all the small things that made it special and unique to me, i don't think the MKV will have that. Will it be a fun car? Yes! Will it be reliable? Hopefully, as long as Toyota has done some serious QoL checks which i believe they will since its been mentioned they want this car to be tune-able. Im still trying to be as patient as possible, i do have high hopes that this car will be solid staple in the import community, I just dont feel like it will be a Supra other than in name. I hope it comes with at least 400hp, and i hope there will be more Toyota in it and its not really a BMW parts bin car but the picture has been painted im just waiting for Toyota to confirm it lolol.

This is just my opinion and and look on why the MKIV is special to me without having to write a book, cause honestly i think i could, i just love the MKIV and whats its done for me, and how much fun i've had and will continue to have. I personally think it shouldn't be called a supra, to some that may be Fanboy or an elitist thinking, but thats just me.

Dc2bar said:

Struggles? Not sure where the hell you heard that. The M6 is near nismo money, yet still gets absolutely slaughtered by base model GTR trims in literally every category (0-everything, braking, skidpad g force, figure 8 times, track times, etc) by a significant margin. The massive carbon ceramic brakes looked cool, but after driving one, the brakes are horrible, stopping the damn thing felt like a Herculean effort. Seriously, trying to stop the thing felt like I was in my big ass X6.

I think both cars are ass ugly, so not sure I can comment on that statistic, and having bought what's often referred to as the ugliest "SAV" in the world, I don't have much credibility in the beauty department. The interior is much much better though.

Honestly, Nissan has failed to continue to enhance the GTR in a worthwhile way to keep up with the price hikes and the years though. I haven't bought a used car in a very long time, being someone that wants the latest and the greatest, but should the MKV be as big a disappointment as I'm fearing, there's absolutely no reason to buy a new GTR for 110k vs a 50k used one that is the exact same car.

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The GTR at base spec does not slaughter a M6.. For track use I'm sure the GTR is probably better (i don't know about either car around the track), I was referring to the more 'everyday stuff.'

As for looks, that's down to you. However, price wise, the GTR is not a £100k car. Like you said, apart from a change of lights, there are no worthwhile upgrades and the interior does not at all help justify that price tag especially when the old car is practically the same thing.

I’m not sure why some of you guys would say PerformanceSound is pessimistic. The facts are that the heart of the engine is a BMW, most of the interior is BMW, they are somewhat restricted in the output of the car due to the Z4, no manual transmission. It’s obvious we all want this supra to receive the mantle from the mk4 Supra but this really isn’t a Toyota, and certainly not worthy of the Supra badge. It would be fine if they called it something else, but it’s a mistake calling it a supra imo.

Dc2bar said:

Struggles? Not sure where the hell you heard that. The M6 is near nismo money, yet still gets absolutely slaughtered by base model GTR trims in literally every category (0-everything, braking, skidpad g force, figure 8 times, track times, etc) by a significant margin. The massive carbon ceramic brakes looked cool, but after driving one, the brakes are horrible, stopping the damn thing felt like a Herculean effort. Seriously, trying to stop the thing felt like I was in my big ass X6.

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SupraGuy88 said:

@PerformanceSound , at first i thought your post were really negative but the longer i lurked on this forum, and the more it started to look like exactly what i feared it would be (a reskinned z4). I come to agree with you on alot of things you pointed out and i kinda feel the same way about the car overall I wouldnt trade my MKIV for a MKV.

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Sammy82 said:

I’m not sure why some of you guys would say PerformanceSound is pessimistic. The facts are that the heart of the engine is a BMW, most of the interior is BMW, they are somewhat restricted in the output of the car due to the Z4, no manual transmission. It’s obvious we all want this supra to receive the mantle from the mk4 Supra but this really isn’t a Toyota, and certainly not worthy of the Supra badge. It would be fine if they called it something else, but it’s a mistake calling it a supra imo.

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Thanks guys....appreciate the feedback.

There is a reason why GTR's, older Supra's, etc... dominate the tracks/strips. They are proven platforms because they are 100% Japanese engineered cars. The pure Japanese factor is why the 90's cars are legendary. All one has to do is research Japanese automotive engineering practices to understand why the GTR, Supra, etc... names are unforgettable. I can guarantee you that had the MKIV Supra come with a BMW engine in the 90's, you would see junkyards littered with them right now. Of course HKS and Greddy and whoever will have aftermarket products for the MKV, they have to in order to stay afloat. It is the same reason Tremec makes multi-ratio magnum transmissions with different bellhousings....they have to cater to different audiences to make sales. This doesn't mean anything though when we talk about being special. I can make a Toyota Matrix run 9's....but will it be in demand as much as a Supra, GTR, RX-7, etc..?? Why not?? Look at the BMW M cars...they are selling for almost $100k well equipped brand new. Wait two years, and they are half the price. Why?? The Mustang GT350/350R's are maintaining great resale values because they are SPECIAL cars....cars designed to be modified and driven hard as sports cars. How often do you see AMG's and M cars modded in national events?? All I see nowadays are; Supra's, GTR's, Vette's, and Mustangs. Where are the Euro's???

Anyhow, I really have been beating a dead-horse....from now on I am just going to watch from a distance. I am not hear to preach to anyone, im simply trying to bring awareness to those who are not old enough to remember why the Supra name is or was so special....and to hopefully help them make right purchasing decisions in the future.