Why I'm NOT Hyped About The New Toyota Supra

PerformanceSound

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How does one say "get back to topic" on a negative discussion thread?:hmm:
Lol...right? This thread was created for people like me to vent off about why we are not hyped about the MKV, because some people bitched too much that there was negativity in the other posts. Now, those same people who bitched about the negativity in other threads are bitching about the negativity in a negativity thread. Super Trolls...a new breed of internet trolls.
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Bryster

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Lol...right? This thread was created for people like me to vent off about why we are not hyped about the MKV, because some people bitched too much that there was negativity in the other posts. Now, those same people who bitched about the negativity in other threads are bitching about the negativity in a negativity thread. Super Trolls...a new breed of internet trolls.
Might as well add "no personal attacks" to the thread in parentheses
 

zedsix

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PerformanceSound, I honestly held back for most part based on having no real information/images. I've really wanted to 'like' this new so called Supra, however I am too far on the opposite end of even contemplating to purchase one. The mere fact here is that I've ultimately fallen in love with the MKIV supra, I honestly expected the MKV to be better developed and designed, so lets look at the facts:

1. B58 engine, ~340HP (20 more HP than the 1993 - 2002 MKIV). The car is heavily under-powered in this day and age, while the B58 is a great engine, it's no where near as great as the 2JZGTE (tuner friendly and unbreakable). Ultimately if I wanted a B58 engine I would just gone for a BMW M2 which I can get in manual.

2. BMW drivetrain, engine, interior (for the most part). I am not saying there's a problem with this, however to iterate my previous comment if I wanted a BMW developed car I'll be going to BMW for one not Toyota.

3. No manual gearbox (for the time being). This is probably the biggest selling point for me, I love stick period.

4. Drivers cockpit interior.

I've worked/services and driven many BMW models - I am not biased in anyway against them, I actually like the B58 engine and some of the cool interiors they have going on.

You know that feeling with a movie comes out, you watch the first one and you're like 'that was great, can't wait to see a second', those were my thoughts with the Supra. Sadly it seems like the car is definitely more politically oriented/money focused, I really had hoped it wouldn't have been. The car will sell to the masses, just like the 86 - it's all marketing. They'll use terms such as 'built by passion, heritage etc', 'stiffer than an LFA chassis', '50:50 weight distribution' etc.

I do have to say thank you to Toyota though, I really love my MKIV's - I hope one day that you bring back the true spirit of the true Supra name (the one it deserves).
 

Bryster

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PerformanceSound, I hI do have to say thank you to Toyota though, I really love my MKIV's - I hope one day that you bring back the true spirit of the true Supra name (the one it deserves).
Wha,you mean to tell me that the spirit of the Supra isn't a RWD Coupé with an Inline 6??
 

Modal170

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Wha,you mean to tell me that the spirit of the Supra isn't a RWD Coupé with an Inline 6??
No, it's a Toyota-only engineered car. Apparently that's the only thing that can be accepted.

Frankly, it doesn't matter what is released, there's going to be problems with it from one neck of the woods to the other. Either go cheap so it can be mass-produced and risks flak from enthusiasts, be expensive and risk losing margins from toyota because no one wants the car and whine that it's out of their budget, or not make the car at all and have people cry about wanting the supra and wanting something other than the 86 in the lineup.

Toyota, just make this and let people remember that when the cool stuff happens, it is at the expense of our wallets.

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Bryster

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No, it's a Toyota-only engineered car. Apparently that's the only thing that can be accepted.

Frankly, it doesn't matter what is released, there's going to be problems with it from one neck of the woods to the other. Either go cheap so it can be mass-produced and risks flak from enthusiasts, be expensive and risk losing margins from toyota because no one wants the car and whine that it's out of their budget, or not make the car at all and have people cry about wanting the supra and wanting something other than the 86 in the lineup.

Toyota, just make this and let people remember that when the cool stuff happens, it is at the expense of our wallets.

hqdefault.jpg
Plus, Hybrid Supra would be the result of In House Toyota
 

awegrzyn

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I spent 20 years in a Supra, so let me show you few things the general public missed.
Some of them will surprise you:

1. Automatic transmission will sell better than manual would in the first year of sales. Toyota knows that. That's what
happened with MKIV. They are banking on the IMPULSE BUYING consumers. In 1993 most auto models of MKIV doubled the sales of manuals. Every year after, the manual doubled the sales of auto versions. I'm sure a manual is coming.

2. There was a reason why engine and tranny was "unknown" from the beginning (FT1 concept). It was known very well, but hidden from the public in order to keep the HYPE going. There were a lot of "believers" hoping for a super car. If they announced from the beginning this is BMW Z4 with our styling, the bubble would never grow so much.

3. The car has a major engineering flaw. The suspension does not match the body. This is what "bothers" people visually about this car. Car does not look bad, but something is off. What is off is the proportions: wheelbase/wheel size/body. Car sits wrong. No aftermarket kit will be able to fix it. Car will always look deraked from the side. Fender holes as if this was a Mustang from the 90's. Overall this thing has a DONK Car profile. This weird profile came from the fact of squishing FT1 concept into a small BMW frame (basically BMW M Coupe 2007). The frame size does not match a GT design. Design has to target the frame.

4. 2020 Supra is heavy. That's right, don't let them "market" you anymore. The car is actually heavier than 1993 IV Twin Turbo Manual. 1993 Supra had a spare wheel, tools, and bunch of junk in the trunk. If you remove that (as you need to compare apples to apples), it is lighter than 2020 Supra in the showroom. 25 years later, with weight reducing techniques invented, smaller car, lack of 2+2 and the car is still super heavy. I understand that relatively speaking the car is lighter than the GTR, but don't let them market it as a light car. Porsche 911, or RX7 was a light fun car. At 3400 lbs this won't be a small nimble car. 50/50 weight distribution is not required on a track and it's definitely meaningless on the street. Cross weight and other weight characteristics are more important, and sports cars/race cars should have more weight in the rear to counter the understeer. The argument that the Supra is more rigid than Lexus LFA is also a marketing thing because it does not mean it will handle better. Meaningless for the street.

5. Car is completely illogical. On one hand they want a "sports car", so they make it smaller, 50/50 weight distribution, they remove 2+2, but than they install an automatic transmission. It's more sports car than MKIV, but less of a race car, as you can't race with an Auto in SCCA for example. It has vents, but not really connected. It uses same parts as it's sister car, but has less power. It's a collaboration, but we did not produce anything. Weird.

6. MKIV was a pioneer of that era. It held braking record for 15 years, and it outperformed it's competition in every aspect. I have the brochures from those years and the comparisons are there. 2JZ or is not the only reason why MKIV was popular. The whole car was an accidental perfection.

7. Why the hate? Simple. All bubbles burst, and the hate is always proportional to the hype. And since the hype had no essence behind it, people are kind of pissed. Worse, Toyota was not honest. They never collaborated with BMW. They simply contracted BMW to use their parts. Not even work together as there was nothing to work on to be honest. When I called out Tada on his ridiculous manual transmission statements, people wanted to ban me, I was correct all along. Poll on this very forum shows what people actually want.

My feeling is that Toyota has lost the overall "goal" of what they wanted to achieve with this car. It is neither a GT, sports car, or a race car. It came out as a kit car. They probably hate this car by now. What Toyota needs to learn first is that car enthusiast are intelligent at the end of the day. They will call your BS. Toyota has been BSing us since at least Le Mans, when Fernando Alonso (nothing against him) all the sudden "caught" up to the sister car that slowed down for "unknown" reasons. When I saw F. Alonso introduce the Supra, and I heard that phony rhetoric from that Toyota guy at Detroit, I felt bad for them. People in the West can see through that. You can't sell a car like that. You can only sell a car with honest work and pure heart, like you did the other Supras. Sure they were expensive, sure you collaborated, but it wasn't a marketing stunt. You built the best you could and people fell in love. I wish you that again in the future.


TO THE FUTURE BUYERS OF SUPRA 2020:
The car is good looking and you will be happy. Do not buy the Automatic version hoping it will be a collectible. It Won't. Chances are Toyota will offer manual option and all those automatics will sell cheap.

Do not molest your cars like most owners molested their MKIV. That is 1 of the reasons why MKIV is so expensive. They are gone. My unmolested MKIV is the most beautiful car ever. At 300 (+-) horsepower you can out driver any driver in any car on the street. I raced "momentum" cars for years. 300 HP is more than you need. We simply live in some weird HP NUMBER world. 99% of drivers don't utilize more than 70% of the car's performance unless in a straight line.
 
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supraz4

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Let me tell you that YOU don’t know about anything related to 2020 Supra.
 

Viselord

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I guess you can classify me as one of those MKV fanboys. I just want to express my opinion on the subject.

1. It's a SupraMKV forum, what did you expect? There is definitely going to be a lot more supporters here than anywhere else on the internet. If none of us are excited about this car, who else is going to be?

2. I agree that some of us may come out quite extreme. But that can be said about all the logical detractors as well. My intention (I think I can go as far as to say, our intention) wasn't to ever bully you into accepting the "greatness of the Supra". I am sorry, if we made you feel that way. OP does have some very strong points and that's fine this is a discussion after all. However, my point has always been, be patient. What is the point of talking about all these situations, scenarios, etc, when not one of us has even damn driven the car. Many of us haven't even seen it in person. Be patient, let the whole picture play out and let's talk after.

3. Why does the MKV need to be the bigger and better version of the MKIV? Sure we all want to be. But if it's not, does it matter? Why is no one willing to accept change? History has proven that change is a good thing. Doesn't anyone want to try out something new or should we all just be stuck in the past? Like you said the MKIV has it's flaws but it was great because of what us (the car people) made it to be. Give the MKV a real chance. Drive it and explore the aftermarket. It will be great depending on what we make out of it.

Also, I am fairly certain Toyota understands what the Supra name means for them. I mean they took 6+ years with just this one car. If they are willing to go above and beyond for the new Corolla (brand spanking new MT, CVT, brand new 2.0 L engine, etc) can you imaging what they would be willing to dish out for the Supra? I don't think Toyota has played out their hand yet.

And just a gentle request, please stop with the "OH its a BMW ZUPRA." Cmon we all new it was going to be co-developed with BMW since the FT-1 days. What did you think they were going to co-develop, side mirrors? The argument is really getting old and doesn't even make sense to talk about anymore.

My thanks if you read through all this.
 
 




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