The "Unofficial" Pricing U.S. 2020 Supra models!

Why are people bitching about "only +100 lbs in torque after 10 years..."? A car is way more than just hp/torque output. If you don't think so, you've obviously never driven a car decently.
The way the power is delivered, throttle response, chassis setup,... Modern cars need to meet a lot more safety and environmental requirements than 20 years ago, so a lot of time and money goes into that as well.

If you don't want all of that, that's fine, jus buy a go-cart, throw in a superhypermega tuned 2JZ quadturbo on and you'll be setting new records on the quarter mile. But don't try to corner it, let alone expect some form of safety of comfort.

Some interesting gripes about Toyota not designing its own motor, and citing some of the other companies (notably GM, Ford and Fiat/Chrysler) that have. One thing that works in those companies' favor is that the motors in their performance cars share architecture with volume sellers in other lines (trucks). So the LT1, etc in the performance models, are fundamentally the same as the V8 in the Silverado. Ford and Fiat/Chrysler do much the same. Hell, GM (personified here by Chevrolet) has really taken this down to a science: the nastiest carbureted corvette ever, the L88, shared the same architecture of grandma's Caprice wagon. Brilliant, and worked out well for those of us that liked to tinker and prowl junkyards.

Toyota has a V8, and some V6s and 4s that are fairly modern, but this site would have gone up in a mushroom cloud if the new Supra is powered by anything other than an inline 6 (preferably turbocharged). It's not an easy engine to package across platforms, because it won't do well in a transverse layout. So, they could have gone it alone (cubic $$$) or collaborate with a company that also specializes or is known for inline 6 powerplants that has never been a direct market competitor. Hmmmm. Who could that possibly be...?

My only heartburn with that is as good as BMWs tend to be dynamically, my impression and personal experience is that BMW has a history of their reach being greater than their grasp...in other words, lots of great ideas that tend to be unreliable. Hopefully, Toyota's influence will mitigate that, but color me reluctant.

That said, from my perspective, nobody from GM, Toyota or BMW has ever sent ME a Christmas card, so I have no real interest on who collaborated with whom. As long as it works. Reliably.

Can I just point out that if you think the Supra ‘isn’t a Toyota’ due to the shared platform then it’s not a BMW either. It’s made by Magna-Steyr. Their factory, their production line, using components from suppliers and the odd part from BMW and Toyota.
It’s silly to call it a ‘BMW’ if, as they claim, it’s been developed by Toyota.

Correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I'm aware, without Toyota there wasn't going to be any Z4 in the first place. BMW had planned to discontinue it. I think if this car was just a redesigned BMW, it wouldn't have taken this long. Also I firmly believe that bmw has taken away quite a bit from this venture aside from the financial gains. I find it silly to judge a vehicle before its even out and worse yet, before you've driven it.

GT-Four said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I'm aware, without Toyota there wasn't going to be any Z4 in the first place. BMW had planned to discontinue it. I think if this car was just a redesigned BMW, it wouldn't have taken this long. Also I firmly believe that bmw has taken away quite a bit from this venture aside from the financial gains. I find it silly to judge a vehicle before its even out and worse yet, before you've driven it.

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In fact BMW was indifferent about it until the Supra outlapped the Z4 at SPA

correct me if am wrong, but what i understood from A70/Tada-san interviews is that:
1- 2012 BMW invited Tada san to meet
2- ..things rolled for ~2 years with BMW+Toyota working together
3- ..then for like ~4 years after that both teams worked independently,
4- ..in joint testing the Supra destroyed the Z4 in lap times
5- ..finally BMW adopted Toyota's chassis tweaks. (not the other way around)

correct?

Uhhh...yeah that's pretty much it

mas921 said:

correct me if am wrong, but the what i understood from A70/Tada-san interviews is that:
1- 2012 BMW invited Tada san to meet
2- ..things rolled for ~2 years with BMW+Toyota working together
3- ..then for like ~4 years after that both teams worked independently,
4- ..in joint testing the Supra destroyed the Z4 in lap times
5- ..finally BMW adopted Toyota's chassis tweaks. (not the other way around)

correct?

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That's about what I read too. So I'm not sure where this BS rebadged Z4 crap comes from. I think Toyota is well aware of the weight that name Supra holds. They wouldn't just piss it all away. There's people who've driven it that say it drives very much like a Japanese car rather than a BMW yet we have keyboard ninjas giving their verdict on it being a rebadged bmw. For me personally, I'm very optimistic. Also, someone mentioned that the car makes its current power at 0.5bar of boost. If it's true, that has me excited.

GT-Four said:

someone mentioned that the car makes its current power at 0.5bar of boost.

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Hadn't given that much thought, but it makes sense; 350-ish bhp from an engine that size isn't unheard of w/o FI...they aren't leaning on it hard. And don't forget that on a motor like that, average hp across the band will be very good. Dyno graphs are some time off, but I wouldn't be surprised if it makes 300 lb ft at less than 3k rpm. That kind of torque is a lot of fun (and why big blocks rule!). Peak dyno numbers impress the forum racers, but torque is what will actually move the car.

See the official U.S. pricing announcement:

U.S. Pricing for 2020 Supra - Base, Premium, Launch Edition