Our LIVE 2020 Supra Coverage and Interviews From Detroit Auto Show!

MA617M

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It looks pastel-ish when not in direct light, but sparkles nicely in direct light. Not super easy to tell in this photo, but I'll try to find one that shows it.

Screen Shot 2019-01-15 at 8.26.08 PM.png
Thank you! Reason I ask - I've got a Renault RS265 8:08 in metallic white and it's stunning. Shows off the curves of the car brilliantly, and gold pearls on white cars tend to look yellow when dirty... So fingers crossed it's more silver!
 

Guff

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Here's an overview of the conversation we had with Tada-San this morning. There were 5 main points we discussed.

TadaSan Interview Go-2watermarked.jpg


1. The vents all over the car, are they/can they be functional?

Tada-San:
The vents on the production car are blocked off because, on the street, none of them are necessary. However, the placement of every single vent was designed with function in mind (regarding aero and cooling etc) for use in racing. When you remove them, they can be used for downforce and cooling (even the side vents apparently). Some of these things may look unnecessary, but there is purpose behind all of the details on the car.


2. The people of the tuning world are wondering if itā€™ll have a Toyota ECU or a BMW ECU?

Tada-San:
BMW. I want to make sure itā€™s open for tuners.


3. Why is the screen high up on the center console, it looks like it interferes with the driverā€™s view?

Tada-San:
I made sure that the screen doesnā€™t interfere with the driverā€™s view, like if you are looking at the fenders to place the car on the road. But I also kept it high enough so that you can see it while driving. But again, it is a compromise with design and function to have it like it is.


4. Why does the Z4 have more horsepower than the Supra?

Tada-San:
I always get this question about numbers. My answer is: Just drive it first.

@ichitaka05:
Oh yeah, like with the 86 Launch?

Tada-San:
Yes.


5. Why did you choose a BMW engine, why didnā€™t you make your own in-house Inline 6?

Tada-San:
We could have done it, but it would have taken significantly more time. And I didnā€™t want the car take any longer than it already did.

(Guff Notes: This is likely hinting at the fact that there wasnā€™t enough time for Tada to develop an engine because he would have missed his window to actually make the car, due to ever-constricting emissions regulations as well as the financial viability of developing a new engine. Or even his time as an engineer at Toyota (heā€™s technically retired))

TadaSan Interview Go watermarked.jpg



Something I wanted to mention, and this is not corroborated by anything from Toyota, Tada-San, GR, or BMW. But, I have been looking into the development story of the Z4 and Supra, from the very first meeting in Q1 2012 til now, and there's one thing that has been racking my brain: The GR Team and Tada-San have been working with BMW since 2012 on this project. The idea to use the BMW inline 6 was present since the nascency of this project's development, and was one of the things they first started working on.

The BMW B58 was first released in 2015. It is a clean-sheet design over the previous N55 with a heavy emphasis on strength and durability compared to the N-series motors. It is part of BMW's modular engine design, so it has plenty in common with the other B-series engines including the diesels and the 4-cylinders, which does allow for more efficient/cost effective design.

Now, I am not saying that Toyota designed the B58, not by any stretch, but considering that we know that GR spent a significant amount of money and time breaking down engine/drivetrain parts and sending them back to Japan for testing and analysis, it makes sense that they were testing and improving parts on the B58 prior to its eventual release in the F30 340i in 2015. Whatever revision of the B58 that we ended up with in the Supra is unlikely to be just an off the shelf BMW unit, considering how much development time Toyota spent on it. In other interviews, Tada-San has specifically stated that there was a significant back and forth with BMW with "thousands of parts" sent back for analysis and development. Things like the chassis components, suspension, etc may account for some of that, but the engine is the one thing with the most question marks in terms of the specific components that lay within.

Anyways, that's just a sidebar, take from that what you will :p. I am working on researching all the specifics of the development of this car and cataloging it, and this is just one of the things I am working on.
 
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chnco

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Thanks Guff. The more I read, the more I speculate that they ā€œgot lazy and just used BMW partsā€. The little things keep adding up and itā€™s tough to ignore the lack of influence Toyota had and/or changed up in the car.

Iā€™m perplexed and hoping for more when the car is released to the general public
 

supraz4

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Thanks for the interview and all the info, Guff!
I personally think this joint project is very interesting not only as a Toyota or BMW enthusiast but generally as a sports car enthusiast.
Two companies that makes or made one of the greatest inline-6 engines and sports cars collaborated together to create these two cars.
As much as I understand the people that might have been disappointed in the Supra because itā€™s not fully developed by Toyota, I think itā€™s great to see these two cars come to fruition with amazing performance to back it up. (Of course, we will have to see the test numbers for production Supra when itā€™s out, but Z4 has already been posting some impressive times.)
 

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From the looks of it,he chose the B58 over a 3JZ to stay within that 5 year window
 

SupraFiend

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While what he said may be true, the main reason is obviously budget. If they weren't willing to pay to develop a new car on their own they certainly weren't going to pay for an all new motor. Toyota seems pretty set on sticking with v6s (and v8s) still so not likely they would have an inline and V 6 in production at the same time again in this day and age.
 
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CantEven_Supra

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Do we have any idea of when the next round of test drives are going to be for journalists and car reviewers with the now production model?
 

Kaizen

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"2. The people of the tuning world are wondering if itā€™ll have a Toyota ECU or a BMW ECU?

Tada-San:
BMW. I want to make sure itā€™s open for tuners."

How exactly does this work? If Toyota tuned the car to have a distinct Japanese taste, they did that by coding/modifying BMW's ECU? I remember the Jarama reviews saying it had a Japanese feel to it with the engine and transmission. From an engineering perspective I only see Toyota developing the specifics of the ECU on their side to test the car repeatedly. Unless Toyota was just working on the BMW ECU from the beginning with the help of BMW engineers (looks like everything is manufactured in Germany).:hmm:
 

Guff

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"2. The people of the tuning world are wondering if itā€™ll have a Toyota ECU or a BMW ECU?

Tada-San:
BMW. I want to make sure itā€™s open for tuners."

How exactly does this work? If Toyota tuned the car to have a distinct Japanese taste, they did that by coding/modifying BMW's ECU? I remember the Jarama reviews saying it had a Japanese feel to it with the engine and transmission. From an engineering perspective I only see Toyota developing the specifics of the ECU on their side to test the car repeatedly. Unless Toyota was just working on the BMW ECU from the beginning with the help of BMW engineers (looks like everything is manufactured in Germany).:hmm:
The actual hardware of the ECU and various body controls is BMW, and Toyota did their own mapping/tuning to get the car to where they wanted. BMW would have given Toyota whatever tools and software were necessary to do so. This is was done specifically because BMW's proprietary encryption on their current ECU hardware has already been (mostly) decoded, and as such, 3rd party tuners can work with these ECUs for tuning purposes.

It makes no difference to Toyota whether or not they use BMW or Toyota hardware, but even Tada-San himself knows that the Toyota hardware isn't nearly as tuner-friendly as the current BMW stuff is.
 

kona61

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It's easier for tuners to use an existing ECU over an entirely new one which would be harder to crack open
Especially an ECU that has been cracked already. The incentive to crack BMW ecu's is high as their are many models that use the same ECU.
 

ayau

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Thanks for doing the interview.

Any hints at other Supra variants in the future? Maybe a more "track orientated" version?

What do you think Toyota will do with the current 86?
 

solidsamir

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Something I wanted to mention, and this is not corroborated by anything from Toyota, Tada-San, GR, or BMW. But, I have been looking into the development story of the Z4 and Supra, from the very first meeting in Q1 2012 til now, and there's one thing that has been racking my brain: The GR Team and Tada-San have been working with BMW since 2012 on this project. The idea to use the BMW inline 6 was present since the nascency of this project's development, and was one of the things they first started working on.

The BMW B58 was first released in 2015. It is a clean-sheet design over the previous N55 with a heavy emphasis on strength and durability compared to the N-series motors. It is part of BMW's modular engine design, so it has plenty in common with the other B-series engines including the diesels and the 4-cylinders, which does allow for more efficient/cost effective design.

Now, I am not saying that Toyota designed the B58, not by any stretch, but considering that we know that GR spent a significant amount of money and time breaking down engine/drivetrain parts and sending them back to Japan for testing and analysis, it makes sense that they were testing and improving parts on the B58 prior to its eventual release in the F30 340i in 2015. Whatever revision of the B58 that we ended up with in the Supra is unlikely to be just an off the shelf BMW unit, considering how much development time Toyota spent on it. In other interviews, Tada-San has specifically stated that there was a significant back and forth with BMW with "thousands of parts" sent back for analysis and development. Things like the chassis components, suspension, etc may account for some of that, but the engine is the one thing with the most question marks in terms of the specific components that lay within.

Anyways, that's just a sidebar, take from that what you will :p. I am working on researching all the specifics of the development of this car and cataloging it, and this is just one of the things I am working on.
I think that's one of the most interesting things I've heard yet. I'm really hoping this proves to be a case of BMW with Toyota reliability rather than a Toyota with BMW reliability.
 

dgh

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With all the talk (ridicule) of the "fake" vents (Jalopnick did an entire article on this a couple days ago), it is interesting to see the black cover on the upper part of the rear door jamb in pictures - you can see it in the picture above, and others - suggesting it is covering a hole leading to the rear wheel wells. This makes Tada-sans comments about all of the vents being designed to be function seem valid. Close up pictures of the front wheel wells have also shown vents in the front that apparently must be connected somehow to the front teardrop vents under the corners of the headlights.
Sponsored

 
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