Toyota "Preparing" Hotter Supra GRMN, Says Chief Engineer

formsracing

Active Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2017
Threads
0
Messages
30
Reaction score
48
Location
Irvine, CA
Car(s)
M3
I would like to move onto the supposed GRMN that is supposed to be released in a few years though since they're still doing their R&D on this car. I would still like to see them use the Lexus LS500 V35A-FTS or some variant for this GRMN Supra version as this car would be Toyota sourced and it would provide the hp and torque that could legitamitely give the Porsche Cayman S, GTS, and maybe GT4 a run for it's money. If 335hp from the B58 can move the Supra from 0-60 in 4.1 seconds, I think the V35A with 416hp and 442 lb-ft of torque can do it in at least 3.5 secs if not faster. Sure it might not be an inline 6 but at least it's a Toyota (Lexus) engine.

.
Yeah, no way it'll be even touch 3.5 sec without at least 500hp or nore. The new 992 911 Carrera S in base form weighs around the same (for arguments sake) and does 0-60 claimed 3.5 seconds.

That's with "just" 445HP/391lbft, rear engine traction, and an 8 speed dual clutch.

Porsche is the KING of doing more with less power. The Supra would need a unicorn in the engine bay to match,

However, lets just say by Gods miracle that they do put that unicorn into the Supra. Lexus should just stop developing any of the F cars right now because there would be no point.
Sponsored

 

bogglo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2017
Threads
1
Messages
246
Reaction score
441
Location
california
Car(s)
Lexus GS
However, lets just say by Gods miracle that they do put that unicorn into the Supra. Lexus should just stop developing any of the F cars right now because there would be no point.
This line is one of the reason why this supra is the way it is IMO. Back in 97 there was no F- cars. None of toyota's performance cars were Lexus. but today its a different story. Like it as been mentioned before most of Toyota engineers that are into performance stuff now work with Lexus. Probably another reason why the GR team had to be the one to work on the Supra.
 

factsaboutrats

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2016
Threads
0
Messages
61
Reaction score
78
Location
NOLA
Car(s)
2017 LX570 2014 LandSmasher
I tell you, I'm really looking forward to seeing some of the expected platforms being replaced with the much needed next gen platforms for many of their cars and trucks.

Examples include next generation 4Runner/GX460, Landcruiser/LX570, GS, Tundra, IS and ISF. I wish Toyota would make extended Landcruiser/LX570 wheelbase versions. We would have bought that truck in a heart beat but we actually need seating for 8 plus cargo space and the Landcruiser/LX570 didn't cut it in terms of space and so we went with a domestic vehicle. First domestic ever and I guess it's been fine. I know those trucks don't sell a lot to begin with but I'm sure there's a market for an extended wheelbase model in there somewhere. Seeing that people are so SUV hungry these days, I think that makes more sense than building a convertible LC500, even with as beautiful as it is. Besides, the Landcruiser name is LEGENDARY, 100 times more legendary than the Supra name.

The 4Runner needs to step up it's game big time too. That new Jeep Wrangler kills the 4Runner in terms of features and the 4Runner is on such an old platform. I know if it ain't broke don't fix it but that can only carry you so long. I just hope they don't come up short on the next gen 4Runner and leave sales on the table for the Wrangler to pick up.

Tundra really should look at diesel even though I know diesel isn't in Toyota's vocabulary (at least in the US), they really should look at it. They sell enough RAV4 and Camry's for Toyota to take a little bit of a hit to offer a low volume diesel in the Tundra if nothing more than to advertise that they have a diesel. Even Nissan has a 3rd party branded diesel.

GS...will it be killed? Won't it be killed? I have heard every rumor which way for this car. Regardless, something needs to be done because it's way long in the tooth and has been left behind by practically every manufacturer with their competing models. Hopefully, they keep it going and the next gen GS is awesome. I thought I read that GR is developing the GSF. Not clear if that is to mean the next gen GSF or if they're going to rework the current GSF during the refresh.

Lastly, the IS needs a next gen platform badddddddd. I'm sad to see the ISF was dropped but hopefully, they bring it back. I would love to see it keep the v8 but maybe make it smaller and go turbo. The F models would really be building legacy if they keep all of the F models with v8's. I just hope the next gen IS is a little bigger like maybe the size of what the BMW E90 was. The F series was a little too big and now the BMW G series is way too big. It's basically the size of what their 5 series used to be.
No one will want to afford a stretched LandSmasher, it'll be well over 100K, Wrangler and 4Runner are not cross shopped, two different markets. The Tundra plant is humming at full capacity, and they sell as many Tundras as they can build. Don't expect any experiments there until a new 2 Billion dollar factory is built. GS is dead.
 

Chuck Mason

Active Member
First Name
Chuck
Joined
Jun 22, 2017
Threads
0
Messages
36
Reaction score
85
Location
USA
Car(s)
2019 4Runner TRD Off Road
So it seems that a lot of people are unhappy with the fact that Toyota decided to put BMW's B58 into the Supra. It seems that Toyota went this route because their market research determined that a straight 6 was absolutely necessary for the Supra. I'm pretty sure Toyota didn't clarify with the group that if they gave them a straight 6 in the Supra, it would be BMW's B58. I think if they shared this would their research group up front, we might have a different outcome.

So this leads me to my point in that what may come before doesn't always have to be what comes next. Many things on these cars as seen from a purist's point of view have changed over the years and although purists have moaned and groaned, they've all come to "accept" it because they have no choice. Examples, include the Ford F-150 now using turbo v-6 in their trucks. People lost their minds when Ford announced this and now the Raptor uses a turbo 6. People are cool with it now because it makes crazy hp and crazy torque. Ferrari doesn't even offer a manual transmission anymore and hasn't for some years now. BMW for the longest time resisted using turbos in their M cars but saw that they were losing the hp war to Benz and so went turbo. Now the M5 uses AWD and an automatic only. The blasphemy. The new G20 3 series doesn't even offer a manual option anymore in the states.

I think it's time to change our perception of what makes a Supra a Supra. We now have to accept this new Supra with a BMW drivetrain and a BMW infotainment system. Frankly, the infotainment system is better than what Toyota offers in their vehicle so I say that's a win for Toyota. As for the B58, I'll wait for time to tell if it's a better move once I can get behind the wheel for a test drive and see how the reliability is holding up after some years.

I would like to move onto the supposed GRMN that is supposed to be released in a few years though since they're still doing their R&D on this car. I would still like to see them use the Lexus LS500 V35A-FTS or some variant for this GRMN Supra version as this car would be Toyota sourced and it would provide the hp and torque that could legitamitely give the Porsche Cayman S, GTS, and maybe GT4 a run for it's money. If 335hp from the B58 can move the Supra from 0-60 in 4.1 seconds, I think the V35A with 416hp and 442 lb-ft of torque can do it in at least 3.5 secs if not faster. Sure it might not be an inline 6 but at least it's a Toyota (Lexus) engine.

The cost wouldn't be too much since the engine is already there and this way, they can spread the cost over another car too. It wouldn't be like they're like building a bespoke engine for the GRMN version that isn't a high volume selling car with the V35A. It would just be tuning it and getting it to work in the Supra application.

I'm happy that Toyota brought the Supra name back. Personally, I wouldn't have done it with the B58 but it's done. Let's see how this shakes out when people get their hands on a production version and how it holds up over time and hopefully, Toyota is listening for the GRMN version. Please don't give people more stuff than they need to complain about already. Please do it right.
I don't remember ever seeing a more hated car on the internet in the last 10 years. Has there been a car that got this much hate and disgust before?
 

BRX

Well-Known Member
First Name
Abdulla
Joined
Jul 9, 2018
Threads
0
Messages
295
Reaction score
616
Location
United Arab Emirates
Car(s)
Tundra, Celica, GT86
No one will want to afford a stretched LandSmasher, it'll be well over 100K, Wrangler and 4Runner are not cross shopped, two different markets. The Tundra plant is humming at full capacity, and they sell as many Tundras as they can build. Don't expect any experiments there until a new 2 Billion dollar factory is built. GS is dead.
Toyota made an extended Land Cruiser, the Sequoia. Sadly, it didn't even get the facelift with the Tundra in 2014. Looking forward on how it goes when they release the gen 3 (4?) Tundra, one of the best trucks I daily drove back in 2009. Anyone has any input on what new engine the trucks will get? Rumors say it's exactly the V35A that the LS500 got as it's already a torque-y beast fit for a truck.
 

Dunc

Well-Known Member
First Name
Duncan
Joined
Nov 1, 2018
Threads
3
Messages
145
Reaction score
159
Location
Essex, Uk
Car(s)
Porsches, Mercedes, toyotas
Vehicle Showcase
3
Toyota won’t be interested in developing an engine when they can use an off the shelf BMW unit.
They’ll see that the internet Supra fanboys hate them but they’ll also see that the same has happened to Porsche every single time they change a technology on the 911. They’ll also know that despite all the moaning, the vast majority of people who were ever likely to buy, will still buy. As is the case with the 911.
Toyota could have made a bigger return on their investment by making another dreary eco-box but they’ve made the Supra for ‘us’. It’s a shame people are so against it without even having driven one.
 

McWicked

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2018
Threads
0
Messages
225
Reaction score
892
Location
USA
Car(s)
Stutz Bearcat
Vehicle Showcase
1
The 2019 Camaro
Damn, as much hatred for the 2019 Camaro as the MKV? Wow!
Chevy must have moved forward with their plans to produce a fart-cooled 2-stroke engine...
 

Jabba

Well-Known Member
First Name
Joel
Joined
Sep 18, 2018
Threads
1
Messages
268
Reaction score
630
Location
U.S.
Car(s)
2022 Hyundai Veloster N
I don't remember ever seeing a more hated car on the internet in the last 10 years. Has there been a car that got this much hate and disgust before?
The R35 had a lot of fanboys crying, luckily social media wasn't that big back then. IIRC, I was in college at the time, people were foaming mad at the tail light change on the C7.

The NSX caught a lot of internet hate and that stigma is still running.

The 2019 Camaro
I think people hated the front bumper right? And Chevy just added a different color scheme over it?
 

A70TTR

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2017
Threads
8
Messages
2,727
Reaction score
10,052
Location
Japan/EU/USA
Car(s)
ST205 GT4, JZA70, JZA70 TT-R, S210 Athlete
I agree with most of what you wrote, and I'm not saying the IS shouldn't be updated (it should), but I'm curious about why it needs a new platform, and why it needs it bad(ddd...)?

Jeff
Either way, 2021MY is the current planned update release.
 

halfmonkey

Active Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2018
Threads
11
Messages
39
Reaction score
41
Location
california
Car(s)
lexus rx350
Either way, 2021MY is the current planned update release.
Do you know if this will be a next generation platform update or just a refresh update? Also, are you at liberty to say anything about possible new engine(s) if this is a next generation platform update? Maybe a 3.0 v6 twin scroll turbo or twin turbos?
 

halfmonkey

Active Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2018
Threads
11
Messages
39
Reaction score
41
Location
california
Car(s)
lexus rx350
Toyota made an extended Land Cruiser, the Sequoia. Sadly, it didn't even get the facelift with the Tundra in 2014. Looking forward on how it goes when they release the gen 3 (4?) Tundra, one of the best trucks I daily drove back in 2009. Anyone has any input on what new engine the trucks will get? Rumors say it's exactly the V35A that the LS500 got as it's already a torque-y beast fit for a truck.
That Sequoia is NOT at all the extended version of the Landcruiser. Two totally different trucks. Landcruiser platform is only shared with the LX570 and the Sequoia is based off of the Tundra platform and either way, it's not stretched like I was talking about like how a Suburban is the stretched version of the Tahoe.
 

A70TTR

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2017
Threads
8
Messages
2,727
Reaction score
10,052
Location
Japan/EU/USA
Car(s)
ST205 GT4, JZA70, JZA70 TT-R, S210 Athlete
The NSX caught a lot of internet hate and that stigma is still running.
I'm not a fan... thing took FOREVER in development because their management team had no idea what they were doing, and it's price vs performance ratio is meh (along with its looks IMO), which is why they don't sell.

There were so many mistakes made originally during the HSV project and half of that nonsense carried over to the ground up redevelopment that ended with the production car (SH-AWD and hybrid being the big ones that doomed the HSV).

Do you know if this will be a next generation platform update or just a refresh update? Also, are you at liberty to say anything about possible new engine(s) if this is a next generation platform update? Maybe a 3.0 v6 twin scroll turbo or twin turbos?
maybe more as time goes on, new platform though afaik.
 
Last edited:

Bryster

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bryan
Joined
Oct 17, 2018
Threads
68
Messages
1,644
Reaction score
1,691
Location
Los Angeles
Car(s)
Nothing,considering a Civic DX
Toyota won’t be interested in developing an engine when they can use an off the shelf BMW unit.
They’ll see that the internet Supra fanboys hate them but they’ll also see that the same has happened to Porsche every single time they change a technology on the 911. They’ll also know that despite all the moaning, the vast majority of people who were ever likely to buy, will still buy. As is the case with the 911.
Toyota could have made a bigger return on their investment by making another dreary eco-box but they’ve made the Supra for ‘us’. It’s a shame people are so against it without even having driven one.
An in house Inline 6 wouldn't do them any good unless it was attached to a Hybrid system tbh
 

Bryster

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bryan
Joined
Oct 17, 2018
Threads
68
Messages
1,644
Reaction score
1,691
Location
Los Angeles
Car(s)
Nothing,considering a Civic DX
I'm not a fan... thing took FOREVER in development because their management team had no idea what they were doing, and it's price vs performance ratio is meh (along with its looks IMO), which is why they don't sell.

There were so many mistakes made originally during the HSV project and half of that nonsense carried over to the ground up redevelopment that ended with the production car (SH-AWD and hybrid being the big ones that doomed the HSV).



.
Has a VERY nice interior,though!
Sponsored

 
 




Top