Petition Against The 'Supra' Badge

Competition:
1. Porsche 718 Cayman GTS
- 365 HP; 317 lb-ft
- 2,965-lbs
- 0-60 @ 3.9 seconds
- $80,850
* + $30,950

2. Audi TT-RS
- 400 HP; 354 lb-ft
- 3,300-lbs
- 0-60 @ 3.6 seconds
- $66,000
* + $16,000

3. BMW M2 Competition
- 405 HP; 406 lb-ft
- 3,600 lbs
- 0-60 @ 3.8 seconds
- $61,800
* +$11,800

Seems to me the A90 is priced very nicely at $49,900...with the aftermarket support that will be available for the MKV, it will be placed above these cars at a lesser cost still!

Supra21 said:

Competition:
1. Porsche 718 Cayman GTS
- 365 HP; 317 lb-ft
- 2,965-lbs
- 0-60 @ 3.9 seconds
- $80,850
* + $30,950

2. Audi TT-RS
- 400 HP; 354 lb-ft
- 3,300-lbs
- 0-60 @ 3.6 seconds
- $66,000
* + $16,000

3. BMW M2 Competition
- 405 HP; 406 lb-ft
- 3,600 lbs
- 0-60 @ 3.8 seconds
- $61,800
* +$11,800

Seems to me the A90 is priced very nicely at $49,900...with the aftermarket support that will be available for the MKV, it will be placed above these cars at a lesser cost still!

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In the states only...

Elsewhere the value is terrible

However even then you have the corvette, mustang, challenger and a few others that outperform it for less or similar money...

I envy the states for the corvette, it’s a great car!

Therealist said:

In the states only...

Elsewhere the value is terrible

However even then you have the corvette, mustang, challenger and a few others that outperform it for less or similar money...

I envy the states for the corvette, it’s a great car!

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I'm in the states, and the Corvette is an amazing car we have under our belt...great bang for the buck; however, it offers a different driving experience in comparison to a smaller car like the A90. Similarly, the Mustang, Challenger, and Camaro are amazing muscle cars and do that well; however, likewise, they offer different driving experiences in comparison to smaller sports cars.
I can speak for the Camaro, Mustang, and Corvette from experience driving them; however, not the Challenger! In comparison to the drivability of others such as the Cayman and M2, they're very different. I'm not siding with the type of driving experience each of these offer (Mustang/Corvette/Camaro opposed to Cayman/M2)...it comes down to preference
I have the greatest love for the Corvette in regards to American greats...but with power mods above 650HP, the car gets away from you quite easily! For instance, many hold that the Z06 still feels unfinished. At this point, the ZR1 is the solution; however, it's offered for over $120k.

But the stingray Stingray - Z51
- $56,000
- 460 HP
- 0-60 @3.7 seconds

Vs

A90 Supra
- $49,900
- 325 HP
- 0-60 @4.1 seconds

Although the Supra has substantially less power than the C7 Stingray, it puts its power down quite well at only 0.4 seconds slower at $7k less. I'm sure with a tune (which will cost less than $7k) the Supra will put up quite the competition for the Corvette. Consider putting in the $7k into modifications on the Supra (bringing it to the price of the Corvette), you're pretty much beating the Corvette. So Dollar for Dollar in the states, the base Supra is still the better buy given the maths.
For the sake of numbers, there's a $17k kit that brings the B58 to 1,000HP. Overall, this will bring an individual's overall cost to $67k for a 1,000HP A90. As said before, the ZR1 offers 755-HP for $120k

For 56k the base Stingray is amazing
I can understand your frustration with pricing in other countries; however, I cannot speak for you in regards to that!...we get the short end of the stick when it comes to some of the variety of autos we get offered in comparison to what you have at your disposal too. If cost is what it comes to in this discussion, the A90 is quite soundly priced in the US and is a great alternative for customers here. As said before...she has potential.

Therealist said:

Come on man, that’s a weak reply, I have already listed not only in this thread but in others a long list of reasons why it’s not good enough. What do you mean “ReAl PoWeR”? It’s listed as 335, like all the other B58 engines, other than the Z4 and BMW have already stated it’s quicker.

I would even agree manual isn’t the biggest issue however it breaks no new ground at all. Unlike the previous generations before it.

It’s got mediocre performance and tech for a lot of money.

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Lol you think 335 is where it stops?
Here are two hints

Therealist said:

However even then you have the corvette, mustang, challenger and a few others that outperform it for less or similar money...

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Outperform it what regards?

The Supra is just as quick (actually quicker in some tests) as the $60,000 Gt350.

The Challenger Hellcat is quicker but it a boat that couldn't compete with a Supra around turn 1.

The Corvette is the only real argument here but again they are completely different competitions of vehicles.

Oh youre only talking about HP huh? Better sell that MK4 and get a Ford Flex since it "outperforms" it for way less money and is way more practical.

Supra21 said:

I'm in the states, and the Corvette is an amazing car we have under our belt...great bang for the buck; however, it offers a different driving experience in comparison to a smaller car like the A90. Similarly, the Mustang, Challenger, and Camaro are amazing muscle cars and do that well; however, likewise, they offer different driving experiences in comparison to smaller sports cars.
I can speak for the Camaro, Mustang, and Corvette from experience driving them; however, not the Challenger! In comparison to the drivability of others such as the Cayman and M2, they're very different. I'm not siding with the type of driving experience each of these offer (Mustang/Corvette/Camaro opposed to Cayman/M2)...it comes down to preference
I have the greatest love for the Corvette in regards to American greats...but with power mods above 650HP, the car gets away from you quite easily! For instance, many hold that the Z06 still feels unfinished. At this point, the ZR1 is the solution; however, it's offered for over $120k.

But the stingray Stingray - Z51
- $56,000
- 460 HP
- 0-60 @3.7 seconds

Vs

A90 Supra
- $49,900
- 325 HP
- 0-60 @4.1 seconds

Although the Supra has substantially less power than the C7 Stingray, it puts its power down quite well at only 0.4 seconds slower at $7k less. I'm sure with a tune (which will cost less than $7k) the Supra will put up quite the competition for the Corvette. Consider putting in the $7k into modifications on the Supra (bringing it to the price of the Corvette), you're pretty much beating the Corvette. So Dollar for Dollar in the states, the base Supra is still the better buy given the maths.
For the sake of numbers, there's a $17k kit that brings the B58 to 1,000HP. Overall, this will bring an individual's overall cost to $67k for a 1,000HP A90. As said before, the ZR1 offers 755-HP for $120k

For 56k the base Stingray is amazing
I can understand your frustration with pricing in other countries; however, I cannot speak for you in regards to that!...we get the short end of the stick when it comes to some of the variety of autos we get offered in comparison to what you have at your disposal too. If cost is what it comes to in this discussion, the A90 is quite soundly priced in the US and is a great alternative for customers here. As said before...she has potential.

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Best, most reasoned reply I’ve had the fortune of recieving on this forum.

I’m in the U.K. and to be honest it’s just not good value. We have “hot hatch’s” which perform on the same level that Toyota are quoting and as I’ve said before a big issue is BMWs reputation for reliability. I won’t get get another one from personal experience but also because they’re rated poorly here. This also ties in to the point about tuning the B58, first no one is going to want to risk their warranty and second I just don’t think it’s up to the stress test of more power and I think Toyota May already know that and that’s the real reason why it’s been left at a lower power figure...

If they sold the corvette stingray right hand drive in the U.K. i would definitely be interested.

I think I’m sure emotionally drained as i have been so invested in this car since I went to the Geneva motor show last year specifically for Toyotas unveiling and the GR racing concept didn’t disappoint. I thought it looked great and honestly I don’t think the production car looks too bad but not as good with slim arches.

As far as I can see here the supra can’t do well as there’s just better priced competition. If it was priced at £45k for the pro then it might be more reasonable. I do think the 5 year warranty is a plus though!

Therealist said:

Best, most reasoned reply I’ve had the fortune of recieving on this forum.

I’m in the U.K. and to be honest it’s just not good value. We have “hot hatch’s” which perform on the same level that Toyota are quoting and as I’ve said before a big issue is BMWs reputation for reliability. I won’t get get another one from personal experience but also because they’re rated poorly here. This also ties in to the point about tuning the B58, first no one is going to want to risk their warranty and second I just don’t think it’s up to the stress test of more power and I think Toyota May already know that and that’s the real reason why it’s been left at a lower power figure...

If they sold the corvette stingray right hand drive in the U.K. i would definitely be interested.

I think I’m sure emotionally drained as i have been so invested in this car since I went to the Geneva motor show last year specifically for Toyotas unveiling and the GR racing concept didn’t disappoint. I thought it looked great and honestly I don’t think the production car looks too bad but not as good with slim arches.

As far as I can see here the supra can’t do well as there’s just better priced competition. If it was priced at £45k for the pro then it might be more reasonable. I do think the 5 year warranty is a plus though!

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I personally have family in the U.K., and as we bounce ideas of each other about autos, I've come to the conclusion that the automotive culture is very different there than it is here in the US and that's where argument seems to stem on this forum.
As you said, the competition here is very different and apart from the Corvette, muscle cars such as the Mustang, Audi/BMW coupes, the RCF, WRX, and entry level Porsche's, there really is no extra Competition. In regards to hot hatches, we're pretty limited to GTI's, Mini's, and the Civic Type-R. And in regards to this, you can see how the Supra fits rather nicely at it's price point here in the US.
Many will be wary in regards to modifying their autos due to warranty breach; however, as said, GR should be offering some BPU bolt-on's...one can hope that GR parts will not void Toyota warranty as competition in the states offers this option on cars such as the Mustang (i.e. Rousch and Salem for Fords). BPU on the B58 should be substantial enough to bring this car up to par, if not beat, the competitors here while maintaining warranty.
Sure, one can argue in regards to Toyota detuning the A90 due to reliability; however, this may be a safeguard for long term reliability. Toyota is possibly being conservative to preserve the integrity of long term reliability. When the MKIV came out, it was rated at 320HP...nothing more. Unbeknownst to the public, higher HP such as 350-380 could have been on the table and the motor was detuned to 320HP for long term reliability purposes. This is speculation of course and we'd never know since it was never publicly factory rated at anything higher. Fast forward to the A90's B58, detuning the motor to 335HP was publicly stated and we have the Z4's 385HP to compare it to. In turn, we can't logically assume the long term potential and reliability of this motor solely on the detune. Furthermore, personal experience always plays a role in one's evaluation of a brand. But, like every human, every company has a past...this doesn't mean one cannot learn from mistakes and move forward to correct them. With Toyota second and triple testing components of the B58, it must have met a standard contingent with Toyota. Furthermore, I still hold to the notion that this B58 was not developed until after Toyota's involvement with BMW. That probably should not be taken with a grain of salt. It all comes down to badging. We probably will never know what Toyota 100% contributed since it may in fact be covered by a BMW sticker. Remember, "both cars" came out of a "partnership" and Toyota (everyday brand) customers would possibly be more stout to have underpinned BMW stickers on a motor, rather than BMW (luxury brand) customers having underpinned Toyota stickers on a motor. In a partnership as such, there has to be some give and take. Yes, Toyota gave quite a bit, but we finally have a Supra again and I think it deserves a shot.
The only way to test its Toyota reliability is to stand the car up against time and wear.
Don't forget, individuals who have extensively modified 2JZ motors aren't without worry and exempt from problems! Any one who does this, must be aware that above average maintenance is required.

Yeah, the UK and European pricing for the A90 is atrocious - but apparently the GT86 has bad pricing too?

We all get caught up in the US pricing which is great for the US - even us Aussies are starting to look at a six figure car, which, buys a reasonable amount down here - when reality it would be an absolute bargain at 80k.

MA617M said:

Yeah, the UK and European pricing for the A90 is atrocious - but apparently the GT86 has bad pricing too?

We all get caught up in the US pricing which is great for the US - even us Aussies are starting to look at a six figure car, which, buys a reasonable amount down here - when reality it would be an absolute bargain at 80k.

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I think this is what a lot of the misunderstanding comes down to. To the states it fits its market segment perfectly. Everywhere else everyone is scratching their heads thinking why is it so expensive?

My white pro on order is just under £55k. that’s $70k USD or $100k AUD. that’s a huge difference to the $50k USD which is much more reasonable.

Therealist said:

I think this is what a lot of the misunderstanding comes down to. To the states it fits its market segment perfectly. Everywhere else everyone is scratching their heads thinking why is it so expensive?

My white pro on order is just under £55k. that’s $70k USD or $100k AUD. that’s a huge difference to the $50k USD which is much more reasonable.

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Bingo! That places your comments in context and provides greater understanding. If it were $70k here, I'd be looking at something different in a vehicle. Something like a nice, used Cayman S or the like.

Yep. For that money I'm keeping the AMG.

people have got nothing better to do then whinge...get a life...you haven't even driven it yet and you already have an opinion...I say get, i say again..get a life !....Only thing I'm hopping for is a manual trans, but i see so much potential with this car, even more then the previous gen

Justin said:

people have got nothing better to do then whinge...get a life...you haven't even driven it yet and you already have an opinion...I say get, i say again..get a life !....Only thing I'm hopping for is a manual trans, but i see so much potential with this car, even more then the previous gen

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No no no, I am going to use the spec sheet to make a decision as if it were stats on a baseball card

I'm curious about this $49,995 price point that everyone is praising. Once dealers get them, I'm sure we can expect to tack on another 3-5k add in taxes, etc, etc... we have a pretty pricey car

twntrbo03' said:

I'm curious about this $49,995 price point that everyone is praising. Once dealers get them, I'm sure we can expect to tack on another 3-5k add in taxes, etc, etc... we have a pretty pricey car

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But that is literally any car.