What It Would Take to Give the 2020 Toyota Supra the Manual Gearbox It Deserves

Pheonix

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2019
Threads
1
Messages
147
Reaction score
192
Location
Southern California
Car(s)
2016 Porsche Cayman GT4 6MT (track car), 2011 BMW 128i 6MT (daily), patiently waiting for 2020 Supra 6MT
Would it though? I would think feedback and reviews will influence it more as sales could actually be very weak because of the lack of manual. If they do some market research and find out that there is a huge percentage of buyers waiting for a manual version, they may be more likely to do it.

Not that I'm implying we should boycott the car till they give us one (but I personally would never buy an auto supra).
I mean it's a brand new sports car in the market. Of course feedback and reviews from journalists can persuade enthusiasts but in the end, it all depends on how well the thing sells to a casual customer who doesn't follow the news. These days of SUV's, autonamous, and electric everything, having a new sports car can be a hard sell for a mainstream manufacturer. Toyota knocked it out of the park with the 86 because that was affordable. But this thing will be harder to move at $50k. Also you gotta keep in mind that only enthusiasts care about a manual trans and we make up probably a very small number of the market share that this car will sell to.
Sponsored

 

SupraFiend

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2017
Threads
1
Messages
574
Reaction score
850
Location
Vancouver
Car(s)
5 Supras currently
Actually there was a lot of reporting in the years after the FRS that it was a bit of a sales flop. I didn't buy it though, people had nothing to compare it too. Sure it didn't make a dent compared to the sales of say the Corolla, but it was outselling the Miata of the time so couldn't be that bad. Same thing with the last gen Celica. They killed that due to bad sales, but I suspect it did fairly well compared to the average sports car. The MRS on the other hand was a tough sale, no trunk, dedicated weekend car etc. It almost seemed like those two were joined at the hip, the Celica got canned because of the MRS going down.
 

Pheonix

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2019
Threads
1
Messages
147
Reaction score
192
Location
Southern California
Car(s)
2016 Porsche Cayman GT4 6MT (track car), 2011 BMW 128i 6MT (daily), patiently waiting for 2020 Supra 6MT
FRS/BRZ isn't a sales flop. I see them everywhere. And oh man do I miss the Celica. That was my first car. 99 GTS.
 

SupraFiend

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2017
Threads
1
Messages
574
Reaction score
850
Location
Vancouver
Car(s)
5 Supras currently
Thats my point, same with the Celica, you saw them everywhere but apparently they were a sales flop?
 

Pheonix

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2019
Threads
1
Messages
147
Reaction score
192
Location
Southern California
Car(s)
2016 Porsche Cayman GT4 6MT (track car), 2011 BMW 128i 6MT (daily), patiently waiting for 2020 Supra 6MT
Celica yes...MR-S...not so much.
 

KahnBB6

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2018
Threads
24
Messages
1,224
Reaction score
1,726
Location
Florida
Car(s)
'93 Lexus SC300 2JZGTE R154 LSD & 2023 GR86 6MT
Unfortunately one of the key reasons manual will exist in those markets is because people actually buy them. If you have ever been to Japan literally the only automatic cars I saw were luxury sedans and mini vans. Everything else was manual. BMW on their M cars is even going away from manuals.

It costs money to do all the safety tests, crash tests, standardization for NA markets since tests have to be done for both manual and auto transmissions. Itā€™s a huge reason why companies like Audi donā€™t bring a lot of their cooler variants and manual cars over to the states.
^^ No argument to any of this. The USA is perhaps the most difficult country in the world to offer any low volume special trim levels to without because of how our crash and emission testing requirements basically have to be done over again for every single trim level variant.

But this car being so iconic and having so much word of mouth and it being a genuine sports car with the looks it has... not to mention the historical significance of its predecessors... I will find it much harder to believe that the Supra wouldn't get a manual in the second model year.

As a contrast, the US-spec Giulia Quadrifoglio not getting the UK/Euro spec 6-speed manual option... while really disappointing... isn't that far off from manuals in the sport sedan market in general be they low powered or high powered performance specials.

Another contrast, the sister BMW Z4 3.0L getting no manual gearbox... being an open top roadster no less... says more to me about BMW having moved further into Mercedes territory on the transmission front. It's still wrong but looking at their car it's much more of a cruiser than what the MKV is even if they do share a common platform and drivetrain.

The 2019+ Corolla hatch getting a NEW manual gearbox option in a segment dominated by numbing CVTs was a genuine surprise.

Really. You would not expect the average target buyer of the Corolla to be pegged by Toyota's market research people as being interested enough in a manual option so as to design a totally new gearbox for the redesign and even give it a rev-matching feature. I think it's GREAT and I'm very happy Toyota did this but it was a surprise.

For the Supra the parts bin transmission and some parts existed to offer a manual. The chassis was engineered for a manual for both the Z4 and Supra. Tada and colleagues have already acknowledged MKV manual prototypes and the need for the option for RHD markets at least.

With the USA being one of their biggest markets for this car and given that the R&D is nearly done or close to it and given that they will want to draw in as many buyers as possible and continue to update the model I will be very surprised if they up and decide not to offer any transmission in the USA but the ZF 8HP automatic.

Over here we are unfortunately outnumbered by people who like automatics and SUVs but whenever it does come to what dedicated sports car or muscle car models are available, if the performance is the real deal and the car is really appealing there still tends to be a healthy manual take rate.

But I do agree with your point, Philip. The United States market still isn't close to what most other world markets are like still favoring a much higher percentage of manual sales annually. Japan's automatics usually are all the more utilitarian vehicles, most Kei vehicles, family and luxury vehicles. I get the impression that even in Japan, other than older manual vehicles their manual market(s) are doing the same thing as three-pedal transmissions are increasingly offered only in dedicated sports cars, industrial or large vehicles that need them (the HIACE line for instance) or specialty sports variants of volume model cars and Kei cars.
 

AsupramkvC

Well-Known Member
First Name
Gerich
Joined
Nov 10, 2018
Threads
3
Messages
373
Reaction score
384
Location
Philippines, USA, Japan
Car(s)
86
In the future, if the MkV wants to become a legend, a manual transmission is required. Sports cars with manual doesnā€™t depreciate as much as automatics do. Unless AT is the sole transmission available, then we donā€™t have a choice. Of course the more choices the better. And being an enthusiast car, it already screams ā€œMANUALā€.:headbang:
 
Last edited:

AsupramkvC

Well-Known Member
First Name
Gerich
Joined
Nov 10, 2018
Threads
3
Messages
373
Reaction score
384
Location
Philippines, USA, Japan
Car(s)
86
Why is it that, when Toyota launched the 86 back in 2012, they could have brought in one with a manual transmission right away, considering this is also a partnership with another automaker. But now, with the Supra, it seems like they want to test the market first, like how the reception of the car will be, before they decide to bring in the manual. Supra should be their halo car. Give it whatever it takes to make it stand out; but it seems like Toyota isnā€™t confident enough with its new product, or probably itā€™s another marketing stuff.:rolleyes:
 

Captain_Kirk

Well-Known Member
First Name
Kirk
Joined
Sep 19, 2017
Threads
23
Messages
1,373
Reaction score
2,252
Location
US
Car(s)
?
Why is it that, when Toyota launched the 86 back in 2012, they could have brought in one with a manual transmission right away, considering this is also a partnership with another automaker. But now, with the Supra, it seems like they want to test the market first, like how the reception of the car will be, before they decide to bring in the manual. Supra should be their halo car. Give it whatever it takes to make it stand out; but it seems like Toyota isnā€™t confident enough with its new product, or probably itā€™s another marketing stuff.:rolleyes:
It's because the rate for MT cars in the price range isn't as high as the 86. For example, the C7 Corvette in 2016 had only 23% of sales come from MT.
 

AsupramkvC

Well-Known Member
First Name
Gerich
Joined
Nov 10, 2018
Threads
3
Messages
373
Reaction score
384
Location
Philippines, USA, Japan
Car(s)
86
It's because the rate for MT cars in the price range isn't as high as the 86. For example, the C7 Corvette in 2016 had only 23% of sales come from MT.
Manual sales figures are dipping. Well, perhaps make it as an option so that enthusiasts will have a choice. If itā€™s an automatic affair only, then it would shy away a lot of enthusiasts(potential customers opting for a 3 pedal option). The car is already there. If this is truly an enthusiast car, then Toyota would seriously consider it and give it a green light. :D Besides, more choices, more fun; isnā€™t it?
 

supraboi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2018
Threads
25
Messages
1,823
Reaction score
2,473
Location
America
Car(s)
A70, GS300
Picked up my wife's Launch Edition MKV Toyota "BMW" Supra at the dealer. I am widely known as a MKV hater so this was an interesting experience to drive a car I have loathed so much. It's definitely not "my kind of car" but it is perfect for her! She loves it! I am hoping to use this car as an R&D chassis to develop a GR700 6-speed manual transmission kit. Like my other kits, this will be based around the Tremec T56 Magnum manual transmission, which is the strongest 6-speed manual in existence. Keep an eye out on my website/instagram/youtube channel for updates
Sponsored

 
 




Top