Analysis, Comments & Reactions from the Web about the new Supra
Matador
Well-Known Member
Yellow as in higher yellow ocntent in the tone of the green, or in the metallic flake (or both)?
Which would you prefer/think would look better on an A80?
justbake
Well-Known Member
*puts on tin foil hat*
Probably because the 1999-2002 cars aren't faster than their claimed 0-60 time in 1993 of 4.6s. I am not saying the the 4.6s run didn't happen but if the next quickest runs we in the range of 5.1s-5.4s than we can conclude that the 4.6s run was an outlier since it is several standard deviations from the mean. I find it odd that a car that should be faster after the addition of vvti and with revised gearing doesn't have many published times because it would surely be quicker than 4.6s right?
*takes off tin foil hat*
Obviously there is a difference in US spec cars than J spec but I think it is interesting to point out there isn't much performance info to be found on 1999-2002 cars.
Hmm I think mostly the metallic. I prefer the Lotus on the MKIV, more interesting. But I'm biased since I had a Lotus Green MKIV.
KahnBB6
Well-Known Member
The addition of VVT-i on the intake cam of the 2JZ-GTE actually does make a decent difference in the low end torque curve even with the only marginally changed sequential twin turbos. I don't know about stock horsepower numbers for the VVT-i compared to the earlier non-VVT J-spec engines but the stock torque number did go up. Thanks to the "Gentlemmen's Agreement" still being a thing back then only a dyno will give us hard numbers.
There is a reason why the 2JZ-GTE VVT-i cylinder heads have become more popular in the last few years in the U.S. in the 2JZ and Supra niche. Combine the better low end torque of the VVT-i head with a modern twin scroll turbo and possibly a quick spool valve on a good tune and it's golden.
The same was true of the revision of the 1JZ-GTE from the early parallel non-sequential turbos to a VVT-i single turbo in MY1996. The torque curve on the 2.5L changed completely and it was much faster off the line from 0-60. Still not 2JZ-GTE fast but enough to note.
Anyway the only straight six engines Toyota still makes or sells are remaining short blocks and cylinder heads for the 2JZ, 1JZ, 1FZ and 1G that remain in their NOS inventories around the world. The new Supra has a BMW B58 that they not only revised down to the bolts through exhaustive failure and durability analysis testing but reportedly Toyota had some early input on its very design well before the MKV project even began.
The Japanese bubble economy that produced cars like the Supra and many other famous JDMs through tremendous R&D spending popped back IN the 1990's. Today, sadly, the bulk of R&D from all but the most niche super luxury and exotic car manufacturers is going into electric and autonomous. Not to mention Toyota has NO intention of putting any long I6 engine of their own design in any other Toyota or Lexus.
Personally I'm getting very bored with this constant "but it's a BMW!" crap. It's starting to remind me of the stupid Ford vs Chevy arguments back in the day only that was more like chiding rivalry amongst owners.
It's it's a co-developed *base* platform and driveline with individual styling and tuning after that. Toyota is far from the only company to have done this with a sports model today.
The anti-MKV stuff is just hating the car because it exists at all. When there is a very possible near future predominantly filled with silent EVs many of which won't even have steering wheels if they fully drive themselves and the cars we as enthusiasts like might become quite rare and/or quite expensive to obtain and keep up or are even restricted as to when and where they can drive at all I do have to wonder if it's appreciated that it's actually a GOOD thing that the MKV exists right now.
Because there will never be a 3JZ from Toyota and OEM parts for the Supra MKIV and its 2JZ-GTE 6-speed driveline are not getting any more plentiful.
There is a reason why the 2JZ-GTE VVT-i cylinder heads have become more popular in the last few years in the U.S. in the 2JZ and Supra niche. Combine the better low end torque of the VVT-i head with a modern twin scroll turbo and possibly a quick spool valve on a good tune and it's golden.
The same was true of the revision of the 1JZ-GTE from the early parallel non-sequential turbos to a VVT-i single turbo in MY1996. The torque curve on the 2.5L changed completely and it was much faster off the line from 0-60. Still not 2JZ-GTE fast but enough to note.
Anyway the only straight six engines Toyota still makes or sells are remaining short blocks and cylinder heads for the 2JZ, 1JZ, 1FZ and 1G that remain in their NOS inventories around the world. The new Supra has a BMW B58 that they not only revised down to the bolts through exhaustive failure and durability analysis testing but reportedly Toyota had some early input on its very design well before the MKV project even began.
The Japanese bubble economy that produced cars like the Supra and many other famous JDMs through tremendous R&D spending popped back IN the 1990's. Today, sadly, the bulk of R&D from all but the most niche super luxury and exotic car manufacturers is going into electric and autonomous. Not to mention Toyota has NO intention of putting any long I6 engine of their own design in any other Toyota or Lexus.
Personally I'm getting very bored with this constant "but it's a BMW!" crap. It's starting to remind me of the stupid Ford vs Chevy arguments back in the day only that was more like chiding rivalry amongst owners.
It's it's a co-developed *base* platform and driveline with individual styling and tuning after that. Toyota is far from the only company to have done this with a sports model today.
The anti-MKV stuff is just hating the car because it exists at all. When there is a very possible near future predominantly filled with silent EVs many of which won't even have steering wheels if they fully drive themselves and the cars we as enthusiasts like might become quite rare and/or quite expensive to obtain and keep up or are even restricted as to when and where they can drive at all I do have to wonder if it's appreciated that it's actually a GOOD thing that the MKV exists right now.
Because there will never be a 3JZ from Toyota and OEM parts for the Supra MKIV and its 2JZ-GTE 6-speed driveline are not getting any more plentiful.
- Banned
- #534
It's a slightly modified BMW engine stamped with a BMW badge... literally. It can't be put any other way. I have no hate on the B58 engine or BMW in particular, but I can understand why people are hating - it's because they're wanting to buy something that reminded them of the 20th century Supra.... not a BMW... so whatever way you put it you can't blame the haters out there for not getting something that reminded them of the MKIV supra (cockpit, manual, aerotop, Toyota reliability). I've owned close to a dozen MKIV's in my lifetime - it's a fascinating/well put together car from every angle.
A lot of people out there buy Toyota's purely because they've owned a 90's Toyota and they by far have been some of the reliable, durable cars to have ever been made. So when you see Toyota using another company's items in their car you need to respect the hesitation/comments of people out there. I guess only time will tell whether this becomes adopted - I have no doubt it will based on what I've seen.
Bryster
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If the S550 Mustang and the Alpha Camaro share a 10 speed automatic, does that make them any less of a Mustang and a Camaro?
kona61
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Okay here's one thing I do not understand. For one people are saying, "Oh, it's not a supra, its a BMW, they should have built a modern supra!," yet it would seem to me nobody even knows what they want. They all act as if the MKIV is the only supra, yet we have 3 others that were all "supras". Even the MKIV in stock form is really not that exciting. It is a sporty luxury grand tourer. I think that people are still visualizing supras in their modified forms and then comparing those to their own preconceived notions of the new supra without having even seen, much less driven it.
I personally feel that even if this supra was worse than the MKIV, it would still be second best
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- Banned
- #537
Just out of curiosity and i'll argue the context that this is incorrect. The MKIV in its standard form is an absolute weapon for a 20 year old car, I am not sure what MKIV's you drove in it's stock form.
- Inline 6 twin turbo (sequential) which works extremely well if setup correctly, unfortunately a majority of them have been either removed, modified or not maintained to their correct standard. I know this because I work quite extensively on the sequential system on my own car and customers cars, 90% of them are fucked.
- One of the better braking systems introduced in that era (if not one of the best for a car at that price point) - I am referring to the big brake kit offered at the 4 pot front and 2 pot rear.
- The much loved 6 speed Getrag box.
- The interior design is really cool IMO, it's derived from a pilots cockpit.
- The timeless design of the vehicle, 20 years on and it still looks cool.
- 320hp from factory.
- Released with the options of hard top and aerotop.
- Compared to the previous generations of the Supra they always created a more powerful/better car which each mark up.
The MKIV was one of the most under appreciated/best sports cars you could buy at that price point in the 1990's included with the above and the ever growing after market support 20 years later. I think a lot of hard work/development went into the MKIV from enthusiastic/talented team at Toyota that we'll probably NEVER see again.
So now we have Toyota release the MKV Supra, I'll let you/anyone else provide a spiel over why the MKV Supra is special in this day and age. To me the car seems to be more focused towards the new generation of drivers, people that like the bop sounds, easy/assisted driving and 50/50 weight distribution.
kona61
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I personally have only a little experience with the Supra, full disclosure. However, I have had many long nights with a 94' RX-7 and two NSXs so I think I have as best an opinion someone can have without intimate experience with the A80. My argument is that I always thought it was the least exciting of all the 90's cars in stock form. I remember people always used to complain it was too heavy and never handled quite as well as its competitors.
I never said that it was a bad car in any respect. Sure, it was a great performer, but so were most of its competitors. I am saying that in unmodified form, it was not really any better or more exciting than its competitors.
RyanGT3RS
Well-Known Member
The FD rx7 and NSX were more exciting cars, imo. I’m going by the whole “drivers” car perspective. They both had better chassis, better steering feel/feedback, lighter, and more nimble.
The MK4 was a fun car no doubt in its own right. But no one cared for the driving aspect of the car in the mid to late 90’s, it was all about drag races, high way rolls, and making 1000hp. Lol.
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