Analysis, Comments & Reactions from the Web about the new Supra

Lol y'all funny. Drive the car when you get a chance, I think it'll be very eye opening for all of you.

Btw I'm working on a video where I drive an A80 and A90 back to back and compare the two. You guys will enjoy that.

Also, just want to reiterate, the Z4 and Supra share a platform, but have totally independent chassis'. The unibodies are totally different and the cars are built on different lines at Magna. The Supra is so different in fact that you'll find that even the side sill width is significantly larger than the Z4s. Rigidity is nearly 50,000 nm/deg, an absolutely ridiculous level for a steel unibody. It's 2.3x stiffer than an 86, which is a really rigid chassis itself. You can think it's a Z4 all you want but the Supra chassis straight up shits on the Z4 chassis lmao, pardon my French.

Sunday is gonna be an interesting day for a lot of you haha.

Guff said:

Lol y'all funny. Drive the car when you get a chance, I think it'll be very eye opening for all of you.

Btw I'm working on a video where I drive an A80 and A90 back to back and compare the two. You guys will enjoy that.

Also, just want to reiterate, the Z4 and Supra share a platform, but have totally independent chassis'. The unibodies are totally different and the cars are built on different lines at Magna. The Supra is so different in fact that you'll find that even the side sill width is significantly larger than the Z4s. Rigidity is nearly 50,000 nm/deg, an absolutely ridiculous level for a steel unibody. It's 2.3x stiffer than an 86, which is a really rigid chassis itself. You can think it's a Z4 all you want but the Supra chassis straight up shits on the Z4 chassis lmao, pardon my French.

Sunday is gonna be an interesting day for a lot of you haha.

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How's the suspension?

Bryster said:

How's the suspension?

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Ask me Sunday

Guff said:

Ask me Sunday

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Can you talk about how it felt to sit in the cabin? Is it really more cramped than the 86 and hard to get in and out of like TFL is saying?

fwiw compression ratio between VVTi and non VVTi 2JZGTE is identical.

Thanks for the comments Guff, interesting stuff. Can't wait to hear more geek details.

Genuinely curious and uneducated in this department, what car has been released by Toyota that has later been re-established in later years with more horse power or a different transmission choice? I would have to agree with the previous person whom posted, there's a very slim chance that we'll see a manual or power upgrade anytime soon or if forever (read the bottom)

I remember when the 86 came out, there was so much misinformation going around that a turbo version will be 'looked at' and 'possibly released' and also a convertible type platform was being looked into - I haven;t followed the project in a long time but I am pretty sure the car hasn't changed in the 5 years that it was in production (referencing horse power/body structure etc), from my understanding the Toyota 86 was a success in terms of sales and yet there's no further development being made (not that we're aware of) anytime soon.

I highly doubt the Toyota Supra (double the price tag of the 86) will sell anywhere near the numbers the 86 did - I would hands down put money down on that purely based on the fact that it:

1. Targets a specific audience.
2. The price point of the targeted audience - 100k AUD (it's a 2 seater car)
3. It lacks diversification & is rather bland in terms of options (manual, aerotop etc).

Which in turn takes us back to - why would Toyota modify/add extra features later down the track when the turbo model is outpriced and will not sell in large quantities, there's also simply not enough people/demand their due to the lack of options.... It simply doesn't work IMO and will eventually lead to the vehicle going down the same route as the Toyota 86 IMO.

zedsix said:

Genuinely curious and uneducated in this department, what car has been released by Toyota that has later been re-established in later years with more horse power or a different transmission choice? I would have to agree with the previous person whom posted, there's a very slim chance that we'll see a manual or power upgrade anytime soon or if forever.

I remember when the 86 came out, there was so much misinformation going around that a turbo version will be 'looked at' and 'possibly released' and also a convertible type platform was being looked into - I haven;t followed the project in a long time but I am pretty sure the car hasn't changed in the 5 years that it was in production (referencing horse power/body structure etc) correct me if I am wrong.

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This isn't answering your question, but a 400PS version of the B58 is already in late stages of development, thats direct from Tada San. Transmission wise, Idk, that's totally up in the air.

The thing with the 86 was that the FA20 just ended up being too close to its limits out the box. It was a 100hp/L NA motor, but even when you look at the aftermarket, it really couldn't make much more than that NA. In the end, Toyota & Subaru changed a bunch of stuff but could hardly get much power out of it while still hitting OE standards.

The B58 is different though, it's designed from the very beginning with expandability in mind. Obviously, it's boosted, so that's easy, but it's also got fuel and cooling headway to allow for more power out the box. It has a closed deck. It has an attached trans and diff with provisions for additional cooling. And while I couldn't get a boost pressure number out of Tada San, I don't think it's running much more than a bar (I read somewhere 7psi + Overboost to ~14) because making 335hp out of a 3.0 at 11:1 compression doesn't require a ton of boost. Now that all sounds great for the aftermarket, but it also makes it easy for Toyota to bring out power bumps in Mid-Cycle refreshes pretty regularly.

Funny story: At dinner after the drive, Tada san asked us if we had any suggestions or criticisms. The room was silent, until Matt Farah raised his hand and said, "How about 50 more horsepower?". Tada-San chuckled and just said with a smirk, "Okay".

Trust me, this motor will get it's power upgrades from the factory!

Guff said:

Trust me, this motor will get it's power upgrades from the factory!

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I hope you're right, but I'll guarantee you that it won't happen and be something that is released to the general public. I've learned to take Tada word at a grain of salt from previous builds/comments his made - no disrespect to him or his achievements.

Out of interest, does anybody know how long Tada has been working as Toyota's chief engineer?

solidsamir said:

Can you talk about how it felt to sit in the cabin? Is it really more cramped than the 86 and hard to get in and out of like TFL is saying?

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It is less space than an 86 but not cramped at all. I'm just about 6'0", reasonably broad shouldered, and I fit fine in the car. Getting in and out requires a little bit of attention to not hit your head on the roof, but it's not as bad as any monocoque car. I was wearing a helmet and getting in and out all day without concern. Obviously the bigger you are, the more cramped it'll be, but I was in the car for nearly 4 hours straight on the street with my buddy Zain (who is a svelte gentleman admittedly) and we were both very comfortable.

Unrelated: wind buffeting in this car is BAD. Even with both windows open equally, it was like we opened the emergency door on a 777-200 at altitude. Very odd. Also the visibility is pretty shit out the back, the front windshield is also very short on terms of height (but not awful otherwise), but the side mirrors do a good job, even if they do look like Shreks ears. The cameras and parking sensors work nicely though.

zedsix said:

I hope you're right, but I'll guarantee you that it won't happen and be something that is released to the general public. I've learned to take Tada word at a grain of salt from previous builds/comments his made - no disrespect to him or his achievements.

Out of interest, does anybody know how long Tada has been working as Toyota's chief engineer?

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That's fair, completely understandable honestly.

Tada San has been at Toyota for over 30 years. He has been chief engineer for roughly 5-6 projects I believe, most of which were Japan-only vans and I think the xB or something similar to that. Then of course, the 86 and Supra. He was an apprentice to Isao Tsuzuki and worked on the MKIV Supra team as well. His background is Electrical Engineering and Software design.

Kaizen said:

This would be called jumping the gun. Saying as you say here would put some disrespect on the engineers and ppl involved in creating the new Supra. These are hardcore car guys that build cars like this. They know more than the average person, about what makes a sports car. Automotive engineers are pretty much Gods to us regular car guys. They bring us sports cars in the first place, they are the creators. It shouldn't be taken so lightly. Sports cars are a dying breed. This A90 may be special also, 20 years down the road. I'm pretty sure it will in its own right. Can't speak on that behalf when it just came out.

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I agree with you. Toyota has worked hard on this project since 2012. Took a long while before this came to fruition. Toyota will not make a lot of money from sports cars. Why bother make them? In a way, they just want to give back to the enthusiasts, as well as to show their commitment to motorsports, and prove that they can still make making exciting sports cars. I’m very much excited and looking forward to Toyota’s current and future plans with regards to sports cars, also with GR’s involvement. The new Supra is just the start of a new exciting beginning with Toyota and GR.

When Toyota was not making sports cars during those times when they were more focused on making environment-friendly cars like the Prius, people complained that Toyota’s cars were boring. Now that Toyota’s bringing back excitement into their lineup, with the 86 and now the Supra, people still complain, like....It’s not a Toyota; it’s a Subaru(or BMW). Well, for me, I’m just going to embrace this exciting opportunity to enjoy and drive amazing cars from Toyota. Toyota knows what they’re doing, and I can’t wait for what’s to come. With Toyota, there’s always a better way.

*Still keeping my fingers crossed for a manual version of the new Supra with 3.0-liter powerplant

kona61 said:

Okay here's one thing I do not understand. For one people are saying, "Oh, it's not a supra, its a BMW, they should have built a modern supra!," yet it would seem to me nobody even knows what they want. They all act as if the MKIV is the only supra, yet we have 3 others that were all "supras". Even the MKIV in stock form is really not that exciting. It is a sporty luxury grand tourer. I think that people are still visualizing supras in their modified forms and then comparing those to their own preconceived notions of the new supra without having even seen, much less driven it.

I personally feel that even if this supra was worse than the MKIV, it would still be second best

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What's worse, most of the haters never drove an actual Supra, and never will drive the new one. It won't matter if the reviews are out of this world. They are keyboard warriors, who maybe had exposure to the Supra through movies and video games, and now feel entitled to spread hate becasue they can (social media irresponsibility) and because their teenaged illusions have not been fullfilled in the new car (which, again, they will never own).

Most former owners of the MKIV seem more open-minded about the new car than these incessant naysayers.

Guff said:

Funny story: At dinner after the drive, Tada san asked us if we had any suggestions or criticisms. The room was silent, until Matt Farah raised his hand and said, "How about 50 more horsepower?". Tada-San chuckled and just said with a smirk, "Okay".

Trust me, this motor will get it's power upgrades from the factory!

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What about transmission upgrade? Is manual transmission coming, after all?

Guff said:

This isn't answering your question, but a 400PS version of the B58 is already in late stages of development, thats direct from Tada San. Transmission wise, Idk, that's totally up in the air.

The thing with the 86 was that the FA20 just ended up being too close to its limits out the box. It was a 100hp/L NA motor, but even when you look at the aftermarket, it really couldn't make much more than that NA. In the end, Toyota & Subaru changed a bunch of stuff but could hardly get much power out of it while still hitting OE standards.

The B58 is different though, it's designed from the very beginning with expandability in mind. Obviously, it's boosted, so that's easy, but it's also got fuel and cooling headway to allow for more power out the box. It has a closed deck. It has an attached trans and diff with provisions for additional cooling. And while I couldn't get a boost pressure number out of Tada San, I don't think it's running much more than a bar (I read somewhere 7psi + Overboost to ~14) because making 335hp out of a 3.0 at 11:1 compression doesn't require a ton of boost. Now that all sounds great for the aftermarket, but it also makes it easy for Toyota to bring out power bumps in Mid-Cycle refreshes pretty regularly.

Funny story: At dinner after the drive, Tada san asked us if we had any suggestions or criticisms. The room was silent, until Matt Farah raised his hand and said, "How about 50 more horsepower?". Tada-San chuckled and just said with a smirk, "Okay".

Trust me, this motor will get it's power upgrades from the factory!

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So, if it gets factory upgrades, does this mean first year customers will have lower-powered cars, or will/can the upgrades be applied to all cars from this generation? Does he mean upgrades to the current B58?

A11b0ost said:

First of all, VVTi started in 1997, not 1999.

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First of all, it started in 1996 if you want to argue pointless semantics.

A11b0ost said:

Second, if VVTi nets earlier spool than without, and even more torque than without, then updating the 0-60 time is necessary. But you don't agree. Not to mention compression ratio had changed.

Third of all I had already mentioned the fact that 0-60 times are not easily found online. Only common sense you had was directly quoted from me.

Fourth of all, you brought up various differential gear ratios, which adds to my argument.

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You literally missed my entire point. Of course VVTI is better. But wouldnt that make the 0-60 time quicker with earlier spool, more torque through out the powerband, and with revised gear ratios? Why not publish that? Because my tin foil hat theory is their initial times were anomalies that didn't repeat themselves in S2 cars, thus showing the B58 is incredibly advanced for achieving a 4.1s 0-60 as opposed to your recycled caveman meme.

A11b0ost said:

As for the fifff, there is no such thing as a "A90" chassis. Chassis code for this BMW is J29. Google it.

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More pointless semantics. J29 is BMW's internal name and A90 is Toyota's name. Saying it doesnt exist is actually making up reasons to complain about something.