A90 Toyota Supra vs G29 BMW Z4 Drag Race, Rolling Race & Brake Test

s219

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Wait, are you saying Toyota was given a locked ECU map and just accepted the tune given to them by BMW or are you saying the engine was physically tuned by BMW (ie, heads, turbo, cooling) and Toyota didn't mess with any of those parts?

I can accept the latter but to say a multi billion dollar company didn't tune an ECU that most tuners and even enthusiasts can tune very easily is logically not possible. I clearly remember A70 saying the earlier mules had more power and even Toyota tested the engine at higher levels of power (up to 700hp). In the video itself, you can see the shift points are different between the Z4 and the A90.

Engines, transmissions, or any miscellaneous parts costs money to manufacture in bulk and Toyota would be over their head (or budget) to re-engineer any of it and mass produce even a single part. But tuning an ECU is a one time thing that costs relatively nothing and can be easily modified on the go.

I'm sorry, but there is 0% chance Toyota didn't have access to every single option and map in that BMW ECU. If they didn't, I'm pretty sure they could have thrown a Denso ECU in there and get the same results. Toyota is pretty familiar with turbos and direct injections and that BMW ECU isn't anything special.
I am hoping the right person comes along to explain this with credibility, but I stand by my statement that the ECU was programmed by BMW. No offense to Toyota by saying that (and I can't believe anyone would take offense).

The real proof will be when the higher-power Supra comes along in the USA (I don't have a timeline, sorry, but within a year is what the insiders say). This will be inline with specs for the US Z4 's B58D motor. It will be obvious at that point it's a 100% BMW engine, just like the current B58C despite the minor emissions-related differences for the European market that Toyota decided to carry to the US.

I keep hearing about all these aspects where Toyota supposedly did their own thing, but it is completely out of line with what insiders have told us. Frankly I don't care either way, it would not bother me if the car was 100% BMW.
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RyanGT3RS

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I am hoping the right person comes along to explain this with credibility, but I stand by my statement that the ECU was programmed by BMW. No offense to Toyota by saying that (and I can't believe anyone would take offense).

The real proof will be when the higher-power Supra comes along in the USA (I don't have a timeline, sorry, but within a year is what the insiders say). This will be inline with specs for the US Z4 's B58D motor. It will be obvious at that point it's a 100% BMW engine, just like the current B58C despite the minor emissions-related differences for the European market that Toyota decided to carry to the US.

I keep hearing about all these aspects where Toyota supposedly did their own thing, but it is completely out of line with what insiders have told us. Frankly I don't care either way, it would not bother me if the car was 100% BMW.

Insiders such as.... Jason cammisa from motor trend who talked directly to bmw about the car?? Haha, yes, def a biased opinion there and that idiot believed every word and passed it on as facts.

Depends on where you get your source? Lots of rumors, what is the truth?

Do we know people who was actually in the development team, hands on, with this project?
 

Bryster

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I am hoping the right person comes along to explain this with credibility, but I stand by my statement that the ECU was programmed by BMW. No offense to Toyota by saying that (and I can't believe anyone would take offense).

The real proof will be when the higher-power Supra comes along in the USA (I don't have a timeline, sorry, but within a year is what the insiders say). This will be inline with specs for the US Z4 's B58D motor. It will be obvious at that point it's a 100% BMW engine, just like the current B58C despite the minor emissions-related differences for the European market that Toyota decided to carry to the US.

I keep hearing about all these aspects where Toyota supposedly did their own thing, but it is completely out of line with what insiders have told us. Frankly I don't care either way, it would not bother me if the car was 100% BMW.
Only to find out that the BMW parts are just located on the dash
 

s219

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Depends on where you get your source? Lots of rumors, what is the truth?
This person, who has been 100% on the mark with information for years.

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/bmw-insider-385-hp-supra-model-is-coming.1785/

He also posts here occasionally. Most people here are so pro-Toyota they don't even give the information a chance, but his track record is excellent. I suspect he doesn't post here much because morons keep arguing with him about stuff they know nothing about.
 

HKz

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100% lol...he has been wrong as often as the other "insiders" on this forum. everyone is a theorycrafter
 

s219

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100% lol...he has been wrong as often as the other "insiders" on this forum. everyone is a theorycrafter
He already has a a proven track record. Very few people have been as well validated as this guy, and in full view of the public no less. You actually won't be able to find any place where he's been wrong in the past, if you truly take a look.
 

RyanGT3RS

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This person, who has been 100% on the mark with information for years.

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/bmw-insider-385-hp-supra-model-is-coming.1785/

He also posts here occasionally. Most people here are so pro-Toyota they don't even give the information a chance, but his track record is excellent. I suspect he doesn't post here much because morons keep arguing with him about stuff they know nothing about.
Thatā€™s my point I am trying to make.

I know about that poster, heā€™s very active on the bimmer forums for years, I havenā€™t been as active there since owning Porscheā€™s. But you could say heā€™s also biased since heā€™s with BMW, not saying itā€™s a fact, but thatā€™s just how it is in the car world. Of course itā€™s pro Toyota here, look at what forum you are in. Same could be said if you visit other sites. Like asking about Audi in a Mercedes forum.
 

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He already has a a proven track record. Very few people have been as well validated as this guy, and in full view of the public no less. You actually won't be able to find any place where he's been wrong in the past, if you truly take a look.
You do know he was wrong about the 4 banger Supra coming to the US. ;)
 

F1 Silver Arrows

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@jtsang25 here you go. bimmerpost

@RyanGT3RS Hell yeah buddy. Good on you for calling Jason Cammisa out. I've spoke to him about it and some others as well. He literally took the words from BMW and called them facts. Didn't even take a second to realize that BMW is going to speak with bias.
 

TheDude22386

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How could Toyota have NOT tuned the ECU themselves? It's not rocket science. Not like BMW was going to tell them they had to run a program that BMW came up with. You think Toyota would have let BMW handy cap them by not allowing them access to their ECU tech? dream on. It's been well established that once they figured out the basics years ago they both went on their separate ways with the BMW parts book.

Unless these 'Insiders' are Toyota engineers, sounds more like a random BMW employees with little access other then powerpoint presentations
 

s219

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You do know he was wrong about the 4 banger Supra coming to the US. ;)
Last word I saw from him on that said there were over 30 pre-production models built, but slim chance it would go on sale in the US. What about that is wrong? Was it less than 30? Is it really coming? Don't think so.
 

s219

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How could Toyota have NOT tuned the ECU themselves? It's not rocket science. Not like BMW was going to tell them they had to run a program that BMW came up with. You think Toyota would have let BMW handy cap them by not allowing them access to their ECU tech? dream on. It's been well established that once they figured out the basics years ago they both went on their separate ways with the BMW parts book.

Unless these 'Insiders' are Toyota engineers, sounds more like a random BMW employees with little access other then powerpoint presentations
Over and over, people on this forum dramatically overstate the involvement Toyota had in the car with no basis at all (beyond wishful thinking). Let's all come back when the 385 HP Supra comes out next year with the B58D. If that doesn't prove the engine is all BMW, I don't know what will. Of course then someone will probably say that Toyota tuned the B58D too and the US Z4 is also running a Toyota tune.

Until then I guess we just need to keep repeating the mantra, "There's no engineer but Tada-san. There's no car but Supra. There's no internet but supramkv.com."
 

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