Analysis, Comments & Reactions from the Web about the new Supra

Regarding auto vs manual... statistics of one over the other don’t mean anything to me. Either this car offers a manual at reasonable price and volume at some point in the production cycle or it doesn’t. Statistics won’t convince me to suddenly not want a manual transmission in a two seater only Supra sports car.

It just makes other manual-offering peformance cars more realistically appealing unfortunately. Because those models actually offer the non-negotiable transmission type.

The 2JZ is an amazing engine and so far I’m very impressed with the numbers this Toyota tuned B58 are putting out. Will it prove to be at least 80-85% as durable and capable as 1JZ and 2JZ engines are in the tuner world? We will see...

Toyotawild said:

If I could find a decent deal on a mkiv i wouldnt hesitate buying one. But I'm not going to spend 30k on an na with 208k that was posted near me.

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I just sold a 93 na with 108k for 23k...

KahnBB6 said:

Regarding auto vs manual... statistics of one over the other don’t mean anything to me. Either this car offers a manual at reasonable price and volume at some point in the production cycle or it doesn’t. Statistics won’t convince me to suddenly not want a manual transmission in a two seater only Supra sports car.

It just makes other manual-offering peformance cars more realistically appealing unfortunately. Because those models actually offer the non-negotiable transmission type.

The 2JZ is an amazing engine and so far I’m very impressed with the numbers this Toyota tuned B58 are putting out. Will it prove to be at least 80-85% as durable and capable as 1JZ and 2JZ engines are in the tuner world? We will see...

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BMW's reliability track record for reliability speaks volumes about the durability. Capable, sure it will make power for a little while, wonder how many cars will get their warranties voided when the motors go boom and they blame modification.

Diggz92 said:

As much as I like the 2jz why not give this new engine a chance. Before you know it the 2jz will go extinct unless you have the money to build your own parts for it and rebuild it. It's not going to last for ever. This new Supra and it's platform seems good, like all cars and things design will always be up to the person looking at it. Same with having a manual or automatic it's nice to have choices but now a days auto is the way to go I guess based on some statistics. Just test drive it an see what you think.

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The odds of the the new b58 outlasting the old 2jz are low. Sorry going to have to disagree. The strong feeling I'm getting from this forum is that many people on it don't understand the past of these cars well enough to predict the future. Toyota had Calty design a cool prototype called the ft1, toyota then played with the dimensions so it would fit the z4 drivetrain, gave that body to bmw for them to develope and spit out the z4 couple with some supra emblems on it.

Now lets pretend the new supra never came out and bmw just came out with a new z4 coupe that is for all intensive purposes the same car. Its a great car, cool power, transmission could be stick or dual clutch, good power to weight, good balance and overall solid performer. Great, atleast it says bmw on it and like all new bmws you trade it in before your warranty expires. Life goes on as usual.

I get it, people on here are defensive and rightfully so, they put big deposits down and have a big monthly payment to make on a car that will offer questionable reliability and long term durability. All the while was never a supra to begin with.

FasTTurbo said:

BMW's reliability track record for reliability speaks volumes about the durability. Capable, sure it will make power for a little while, wonder how many cars will get their warranties voided when the motors go boom and they blame modification.



The odds of the the new b58 outlasting the old 2jz are low. Sorry going to have to disagree. The strong feeling I'm getting from this forum is that many people on it don't understand the past of these cars well enough to predict the future. Toyota had Calty design a cool prototype called the ft1, toyota then played with the dimensions so it would fit the z4 drivetrain, gave that body to bmw for them to develope and spit out the z4 couple with some supra emblems on it.

Now lets pretend the new supra never came out and bmw just came out with a new z4 coupe that is for all intensive purposes the same car. Its a great car, cool power, transmission could be stick or dual clutch, good power to weight, good balance and overall solid performer. Great, atleast it says bmw on it and like all new bmws you trade it in before your warranty expires. Life goes on as usual.

I get it, people on here are defensive and rightfully so, they put big deposits down and have a big monthly payment to make on a car that will offer questionable reliability and long term durability. All the while was never a supra to begin with.

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BMW was ready to kill off the Z4 though

True on the z4. So you say to give the B58 a chance. I say we give the zf auto a chance. Personally I love a manual trans but to be honest I'm not impressed with alot of manual transmissions these days. After engineering theres very few ways to be able to further strengthen them for power gains

Bryster said:

BMW was ready to kill off the Z4 though

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Ya thats what I've seen online to. If Toyota didn't come to BMW the z4 was getting axed. so they codeveloped the chassis. Not taking what was already there. Everyone thinks the base of the car was already there before Toyota entered the picture. they developed the chassis together using tools and parts (ingredients) available to them. Sure the parts used are BMW but that' just saves costs rather than producing everything from scratch. Going to the supermarket to buy your ingredients vs growing them your self. The ingredients provided so to say are cooked up by Toyota for the final product.

I wonder what the internet would be saying if Toyota released the car before the z4 and stripped the logo off the parts. Then people would be none the wiser. And would they be calling a z4 a convertible supra.

I could put two apples in front of you. A normal person couldn't tell which is store bought and which is home grown if both product is set at a certain standard. Ie Toyota picking parts and testing them to their specs and standards.

jtsang25 said:

Ya thats what I've seen online to. If Toyota didn't come to BMW the z4 was getting axed. so they codeveloped the chassis. Not taking what was already there. Everyone thinks the base of the car was already there before Toyota entered the picture. they developed the chassis together using tools and parts (ingredients) available to them. Sure the parts used are BMW but that' just saves costs rather than producing everything from scratch. Going to the supermarket to buy your ingredients vs growing them your self. The ingredients provided so to say are cooked up by Toyota for the final product.

I wonder what the internet would be saying if Toyota released the car before the z4 and stripped the logo off the parts. Then people would be none the wiser. And would they be calling a z4 a convertible supra.

I could put two apples in front of you. A normal person couldn't tell which is store bought and which is home grown if both product is set at a certain standard. Ie Toyota picking parts and testing them to their specs and standards.

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The Z4 and Supra are based on BMW's cluster architecture (CLAR) platform. CLAR is highly modular, being designed to accept all of BMW's engines as well as electric propulsion, and work with RWD or AWD. The Supra/Z4 chassis is unique, but since it's based on CLAR, it's a Lego-style chassis with design & pieces shared by other BMW models. So not only are the parts going back to BMW, the whole design approach would be BMW as well.

No doubt the partnership allowed BMW to justify a new Z4, I agree with that 100%. I will be curious if Z4 sales justify it from BMW's perspective. It was an extremely slow selling model for them in recent years, even when the design was still current (it definitely got stale in later years).

There is such a big difference between the way BMW and Toyota manufacture components that goes beyond Germany vs. Japan (in fact, BMW does some stuff in ways that are peculiarly different from all other brands). I feel like any halfway decent car guy would be able to pick up on this with or without parts badges and parts numbers. I've only seen the Supra in pictures in videos, but it's so "not a Toyota" and so "obviously a BMW" from a parts, components, and manufacturing perspective that I think car guys would pick up on that right away.

The big question remaining for me is how it drives, and whether or not it's got any remnants of BMW feel left, given that Toyota tuned the suspension to their tastes. I can't say I have a calibrated butt-meter for Toyota feel other than the 86, and Toyota hasn't really had a consistent feel across their lineup for at least 10-12 years (due to product diversity, lack of sports cars, and a mainstream/volume focus). BMW does have a fairly consistent feel however, and I am curious to see if any of that is left. Other than steering, which BMW has sucked at recently, I consider BMW handling to be a fairly reliable baseline, so the question becomes how much better Toyota made it. If they did nothing it would probably be good. As much as we've heard about Toyota's inputs on suspension, I expect it to be a big improvement over just "BMW good".

jtsang25 said:

Ya thats what I've seen online to. If Toyota didn't come to BMW the z4 was getting axed. so they codeveloped the chassis. Not taking what was already there. Everyone thinks the base of the car was already there before Toyota entered the picture. they developed the chassis together using tools and parts (ingredients) available to them. Sure the parts used are BMW but that' just saves costs rather than producing everything from scratch. Going to the supermarket to buy your ingredients vs growing them your self. The ingredients provided so to say are cooked up by Toyota for the final product.

I wonder what the internet would be saying if Toyota released the car before the z4 and stripped the logo off the parts. Then people would be none the wiser. And would they be calling a z4 a convertible supra.

I could put two apples in front of you. A normal person couldn't tell which is store bought and which is home grown if both product is set at a certain standard. Ie Toyota picking parts and testing them to their specs and standards.

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Its a fantastic car, not a toyota no matter how much toyota "cooked" with bmws ingredients.

Toyotawild said:

True on the z4. So you say to give the B58 a chance. I say we give the zf auto a chance. Personally I love a manual trans but to be honest I'm not impressed with alot of manual transmissions these days. After engineering theres very few ways to be able to further strengthen them for power gains

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I need to give nothing a chance, like anything else, you get in the car drive it like it owes you money you'll have a good time and enjoy it. I would love to drive one. Its just I don't get why people want to argue till they are blue in the face that the car is somehow a toyota supra because Toyota slapped a badge on it. You guys need to do some research, look up some history of toyota and the yamaha powerplate and the getrag transmission. You guys are only seeing things from the bmw point of view in some cases.

Great car, cool BMW, just not deserving of the supra emblem. Simple. Its not an argument its pure fact.

The car that should have been born would have been priced following inflation around 72-78k, had a yamaha derived inline 6 and sure, let getrag now owned by Dana Corp make the trans, keep proportions closer to ft1 and it would have been a homerun.

Toyota has insane resources where they never needed to co develop this car with bmw in the first place.

Bryster said:

BMW was ready to kill off the Z4 though

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you 100% missed the point I was trying to make. Hypothetically if bmws z4 wasn't saved by a toyota partnership.

FasTTurbo said:

Its a fantastic car, not a toyota no matter how much toyota "cooked" with bmws ingredients.



I need to give nothing a chance, like anything else, you get in the car drive it like it owes you money you'll have a good time and enjoy it. I would love to drive one. Its just I don't get why people want to argue till they are blue in the face that the car is somehow a toyota supra because Toyota slapped a badge on it. You guys need to do some research, look up some history of toyota and the yamaha powerplate and the getrag transmission. You guys are only seeing things from the bmw point of view in some cases.

Great car, cool BMW, just not deserving of the supra emblem. Simple. Its not an argument its pure fact.

The car that should have been born would have been priced following inflation around 72-78k, had a yamaha derived inline 6 and sure, let getrag now owned by Dana Corp make the trans, keep proportions closer to ft1 and it would have been a homerun.

Toyota has insane resources where they never needed to co develop this car with bmw in the first place.

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Not a Toyota?
I think Toyota has more say in that than you

If I can go in to a Toyota dealership, talk to a Toyota representative and put down money on a brand new car from that manufacturer that they have decided is named the Supra then it's a Toyota Supra.

Whether or not it lives up to the legacy of the predecessors is up for debate and only time will tell, but there is no denying that it is a Toyota Supra.

You dont see people calling Lamborghinis an audi/or VW because of its engine. Aston Martin used Mercedes engines Dont see why it matters at this point that the supra has a BMW sourced one. Toyota wont be producing a new inline 6 that's reality.

rob13567 said:

Not a Toyota?
I think Toyota has more say in that than you

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I'm the customer, toyota can say or do what they want. I'm just the consumer, not sure why you are comparing my opinion to the massive company that is toyotas business model.

scoates said:

If I can go in to a Toyota dealership, talk to a Toyota representative and put down money on a brand new car from that manufacturer that they have decided is named the Supra then it's a Toyota Supra.

Whether or not it lives up to the legacy of the predecessors is up for debate and only time will tell, but there is no denying that it is a Toyota Supra.

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Again, if you believe everything by its label thats another issue. My point is this car shares nothing with its predecessor and is undeserving of the name. What is it about a persons opinion you can't get over? You think the car is a supra because the emblem on the back says it...thats fine that is also your opinion.

jtsang25 said:

You dont see people calling Lamborghinis an audi/or VW because of its engine. Aston Martin used Mercedes engines Dont see why it matters at this point that the supra has a BMW sourced one. Toyota wont be producing a new inline 6 that's reality.

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I call lamborghini's VW's all the time. But the difference there is lamborghini still builds and assembles the cars they just happen to be OWNED by volkswagen. Sure some of the other hard parts are made by audi/VW but that makes sense. None of the new supra is MADE by toyota. Your final point about toyota not producing an inline 6 is correct. BMW already had one. Toyota is run by accountants, this is what happens.

Good luck with your new "supra".

FasTTurbo said:

Again, if you believe everything by its label thats another issue. My point is this car shares nothing with its predecessor and is undeserving of the name. What is it about a persons opinion you can't get over? You think the car is a supra because the emblem on the back says it...thats fine that is also your opinion.

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The MKIV isn't anything like the MKIII, good luck with your current "supra".

justbake said:

The MKIV isn't anything like the MKIII, good luck with your current "supra".

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And the mkii is nothing like the mkiv