A90 Toyota Supra vs G29 BMW Z4 Drag Race, Rolling Race & Brake Test

RyanGT3RS

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Listen,

1. I totally stand by that claim. Nothing but basic maintenance for the 8 years I owned it. And please keep it in context with the other thread where I brought that up because a website projected $3200-3500 maintenance expenses for a BMW back to back 4-5 years out that made no sense and also had no details at all.

2. I said BMW coded it to Toyota specs and have never back tracked. The info about part #'s and BMW stamps is unrelated to that, it was written in response to someone who said Toyota provided BMW with "better materials". If they did, how did all these better materials have BMW part numbers already in the system? Even the goddam seats are based on legacy BMW parts under the skin, parts already in production on other BMWs (like many other things in the Supra).

3. Toyota did an engine teardown and came to the conclusion that the engine met their standards. They did not ask BMW to fix anything. They did however define conservative tune specs to meet internal goals for heat load and fuel requirements. All of this was discussed by Tada in open conversation.

If I was a troll, I would probably be really frustrated that I'm the only one being consistent. Everyone else is all over the place. Whether or not I am a troll, it *is* extremely frustrating that apparently I'm the only one able to be objective without constantly trying to boost Toyota at every turn. Toyota decided they couldn't make the Supra on their own, and they haven't had a high end sports car in their lineup for ~ 20 years. Too bad they had to partner with BMW and lean heavily on BMW techology, but it is what it is. Nobody forced Toyota to exist in the sports car desert for 20 years (and for those who say what about the 86, I owned an 86, it was a great driver's car but is not in the league of the Supra or a BMW M car).

The 86/BRZ is not in the league with the Supra and an M car in power that’s for sure, but from my experience with the BRZ, and owning multiple M cars since the late 90’s to the modern ones, the BRZ out steers them in steering feel, and from reviews of the Supra, and Guff on here, many prefer the steering feel of the 86/BRZ over the Supra as well.
 

DesmoSD

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Well, people have already been tracking Supras shipping out of Bremerhaven direct to the US ports of entry. So if they are sending them to Japan then somebody is driving those boats really really poorly, because they are missing Japan entirely.

Seriously, it would make no sense at all to do that, I think common sense should tell you that.
This is what I thought too.

made4u-jpg.jpg
 

s219

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The 86/BRZ is not in the league with the Supra and an M car in power that’s for sure, but from my experience with the BRZ, and owning multiple M cars since the late 90’s to the modern ones, the BRZ out steers them in steering feel, and from reviews of the Supra, and Guff on here, many prefer the steering feel of the 86/BRZ over the Supra as well.
BMW electric power steering has been terrible as long as I can remember. This boggles my mind, because my S2000 was one of the early production vehicles with EPS and Honda got it right all the way back in 1999 when the S2000 came out. Mazda has excellent EPS across their current lineup. A couple other brands also do it well. But it still eludes BMW to this day. If there was a glaring deficiency for Toyota to improve upon, that would have been it ,but all the Supra reviews I have seen suggest it's still lacking in road feel.

The strange thing is that BMW can make a car with accurate, precise steering feel and crisp initiation (M2 Competition is among the best example). It's just lacking any feedback from the road through the wheel, so what happens is being transmitted from the front end to your brain, but not through your hands that are applying the steering effort.
 

scoates

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This is what I thought too.

made4u-jpg.jpg
Pretty sure that's only for the Japanese market, for other countries the final inspection is done at the arrival port or the dealership itself. Hence the 3 month travel time, about the time to get from Austria to Japan.
 

s219

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This is what I thought too.

made4u-jpg.jpg
That's only cars for the Japanese domestic market. The Motomachi plant is serving as the processing center (VPC). Here's the press release:

https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/toyota/28110994.html

Cars going to Europe and North America ship out direct from Bremerhaven (alongside many other German makes), and go straight to the ports of entry in the destination country. They are using some of the same ports as BMW but I have not heard if they go through the same VPCs (in the past BMW used VPCs operated by third parties, but since about 2014 they run their own in the US).
 

s219

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1. That doesn't answer what car it was, that is cheaper than the average Toyota.
2010 E89 Z4 with the N52 3.0 inline six. If you follow the maintenance intervals given by iDrive, recent model BMWs will go 10,000-15,000 miles between oil changes (or 1 year, whichever comes first). And before someone says 10,000-15,000 miles is a horrible idea, that's fine, but I saw no adverse effects at least through 85,000 miles when I traded the car in. That naturally aspirated inline six was among the best engines in any car I have owned, ever.
 

DesmoSD

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Pretty sure that's only for the Japanese market, for other countries the final inspection is done at the arrival port or the dealership itself. Hence the 3 month travel time, about the time to get from Austria to Japan.
That's only cars for the Japanese domestic market. The Motomachi plant is serving as the processing center (VPC). Here's the press release:

https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/toyota/28110994.html

Cars going to Europe and North America ship out direct from Bremerhaven (alongside many other German makes), and go straight to the ports of entry in the destination country. They are using some of the same ports as BMW but I have not heard if they go through the same VPCs (in the past BMW used VPCs operated by third parties, but since about 2014 they run their own in the US).
That makes more sense and that would have been very redundant and a bottleneck if all of them had to go back to Japan.
 

tisdrew

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2010 E89 Z4 with the N52 3.0 inline six. If you follow the maintenance intervals given by iDrive, recent model BMWs will go 10,000-15,000 miles between oil changes (or 1 year, whichever comes first). And before someone says 10,000-15,000 miles is a horrible idea, that's fine, but I saw no adverse effects at least through 85,000 miles when I traded the car in. That naturally aspirated inline six was among the best engines in any car I have owned, ever.
Agreed, n52 is a sweetheart. And Engineering Explained did a video on the 10-15k mile oil change and how modern oils on stock engines really do last that long.
 

SupraFiend

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How about that C8 Corvette though!

lol

Good review (nit pick, just because they feel different, doesn't mean one feels like a Toyota and one feels like a BMW).
 

SupraFiend

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Nobody knows! I wish they'd build one so we could answer that lol.

Seriously though, you can argue that the GT86 is a Toyota. Subaru could have never built that car on their own. It's a Toyota built from largely Subaru parts, some pre-existing Toyota ones, and some new Toyota and Subaru ones just for that car.

While this thing... I was looking at the emblem really close in the dealership the other day. Looks pretty similar to the ones on the current fleet. That might actually be made in Japan by Toyota, doubtful much else.

Would be nice to see a comparo like this one between the current m2 and the Supra. Now theres 2 cars aimed at the same market more or less. Closer then the z4 anyways. Has the m2 been updated to a b58 yet though? I thought it was running the old N series still.
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