👣 Official: Toyota Announces Manual Transmission Supra!

Only interested if it comes in manual?


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jm6k

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They're not exactly quoting him as saying "there will be no manual." They say that themselves and quote him again saying "Customers who want a manual should choose the 86." He's said this before, nothing new here. I'm curious if he actually said to them that there will absolutely not be a manual or if they just came to that conclusion from his typical vague statements.

Regardless, no. The 86 is 7 years old with basically no improvements. Old news. I'm not interested in buying something at the end of it's model cycle if there's a refresh coming, which still isn't clear on the 86.
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Turbro

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They're not exactly quoting him as saying "there will be no manual." They say that themselves and quote him again saying "Customers who want a manual should choose the 86." He's said this before, nothing new here. I'm curious if he actually said to them that there will absolutely not be a manual or if they just came to that conclusion from his typical vague statements.

Regardless, no. The 86 is 7 years old with basically no improvements. Old news. I'm not interested in buying something at the end of it's model cycle if there's a refresh coming, which still isn't clear on the 86.
And for us high altitude drivers (6000-7000 feet above sea level) the 86 is a slow pos. It’s literally awful to drive, and yes I’ve driven a few to give it a chance. My 1991 180sx has 40 more Hp and a turbocharger which dramatically helps the cars. It’s fantastic. The fact that my 28 year old car is more fun/faster than an 86 is kinda sad.

I only buy turbo cars that allow for tuning upgrades due to this altitude and the supra would be a great contender... just wish it was manual
 

imoj1

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It adds component variations, that is all. It doesn't require a separate production line as was suggested (which I responded to). BMW/Magna already mixes different models/series on the same line randomly, and transmission choice is way less complicated than that. Their whole production setup centers around efficiently handling infinite variations. This is a big change compared to the old days, and compared to how many other automakers still do it with dedicated lines and restrictive variations.
I dont disagree with how things are easy to add into different making lines
No need to urge on something very simple.
Adding manual will lead to different interior setup, perhabs different guages and many other components.
This will result higher budget, and then higher pricing.
Please dont bring BMW as an example. They already price their cars higher
and Benifit from having way bigger business than Toyota with these Austria and Europe factories.
 
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CSUfiend

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What I found most interesting from that article is actually this part (which I wasn’t aware of)
Initially, BMW's then-CEO Herbert Diess, now head of Volkswagen, wanted to jointly develop a successor of the i8, but Tada declined.
How would you guys feel about a 6 figure i8 based MKV Supra?:eek:
 

KahnBB6

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And for us high altitude drivers (6000-7000 feet above sea level) the 86 is a slow pos. It’s literally awful to drive, and yes I’ve driven a few to give it a chance. My 1991 180sx has 40 more Hp and a turbocharger which dramatically helps the cars. It’s fantastic. The fact that my 28 year old car is more fun/faster than an 86 is kinda sad.

I only buy turbo cars that allow for tuning upgrades due to this altitude and the supra would be a great contender... just wish it was manual
^^ This is another very good reason to prefer the Supra (with a manual) as well: high altitude driving.

Once above 4500-5000 feet I’ve found most NA cars save very large displacement V8’s to be lacking.

My SC300 used to be a complete slug at even lower elevation than that. At 6000ft+ it struggled terribly to handle inclines of any kind.

It’s an issue completely solved now with a turbocharged engine. And it’s manual.

Unless the 2nd gen 86 gets either the Subaru FA20T or FA24T then it will continue to have the same issue.
 

Jeff Lange

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The pieces to make a manual transmission Supra already exist for the most part. While it would be nice if Toyota would do it for us, at least the parts exist from the M2/Z4, etc. All that's really needed is a new console for the shifter and a tune.

If only I wasn't a poor student these days...

Jeff
 

nigaskiga

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A couple of problems here: it's not the A90 chassis, doesn't have the B58 turbo engine, doesn't have ANY turbo engine and doesn't and will not have the same horsepower rating as the Supra A90 3.0L

Not very helpful "advice" for people actually interested in a manual Supra rather than an 86/BRZ.



And among those "many" ideas is not a single version of the car with a manual transmission? Hard to believe there are many ideas at all if even one manual model A90 isn't among them, despite the rumored GRMN and GT4.



I'd like to believe that but how else at this point is that demand to be proven to Toyota execs? Was the global outcry to date not enough already to make a case for it? Was the outcry from the U.S. Supra crowd not enough? I guess not.

I've said it before... Toyota, Akio Toyoda and Tetsuya Tada have only the next few years to even be able to offer a manual transmission A90. At a certain point even Aston Martin and BMW will not be able to even on their couple of holdout enthusiast models... a future threshold (all around electrification) that I will, at that point in time, understand. But right now there is this window during which a manual A90 can be offered.

Hopefully you're right Bryster and hopefully PerformanceSound is right but from this article the tone seems to have changed.

I love this car but if Tada-san's words truly do stick (pun intended) then the BMW M2 Competition 6MT just became far more interesting. In a number of years, when there won't be any more new stick shift sports cars at all then all such cars will be equal, all having automatics or in some cases no transmissions at all.

The efforts of Joel Grannas to custom swap in a BMW M2/M3/M4 compatible manual transmission or Tremec T56 Magnum 6MT into the A90 chassis will still have my interest but for those of us in strict smog locales like California that will still be a no-go no matter how nice the swap since you won't be able to smog a manual swapped car that nonetheless shows up in CA smog testing computers as "Supra 3.0L 8-speed AUTOMATIC". Not to mention the ECU will probably be throwing many OBD error codes with the ZF8 transmission missing.

Aside, it's nice that he's more or less confirming that the 86/BRZ will continue to offer a manual transmission in this and the next generation. That's also a great car in its own right.

It's just not, of course, the same thing as an A90 Supra. The 86 has neither the A90 chassis or its engine. It's a wonderful car but it's something entirely different and not in the same league.
The Supra GT4 uses the ZF automatic
 

Bryster

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The pieces to make a manual transmission Supra already exist for the most part. While it would be nice if Toyota would do it for us, at least the parts exist from the M2/Z4, etc. All that's really needed is a new console for the shifter and a tune.

If only I wasn't a poor student these days...

Jeff
if anything, this is Motivation time
 

KahnBB6

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The Supra GT4 uses the ZF automatic
The Supra GT4 will use the ZF automatic, yes. And almost certainly the GRMN model as well. In my post I referenced them because they are, like a hypothetical 6-speed manual Supra MKV, other variants of the same model platform appealing to different kinds of buyers.

While a welcome idea nonetheless I was not expecting, at this point, for the Supra GT4 or Supra GRMN to have manual transmission options. I had only been expecting the regular Supra 3.0L to get a manual option and that would have been fine with me.
 

KahnBB6

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The pieces to make a manual transmission Supra already exist for the most part. While it would be nice if Toyota would do it for us, at least the parts exist from the M2/Z4, etc. All that's really needed is a new console for the shifter and a tune.

If only I wasn't a poor student these days...

Jeff
Your example with the IS250 6MT to "IS350" 6MT full conversion with an ECU tune and other electronic tweaks are certainly things we can learn from to this end, Jeff :bow::)

I agree. The parts are pretty much all available to acquire and do 90% of a manual conversion to an A90. It's some final console changes (unless the Euro Z4 2.0L 6MT parts can suffice) and a custom ECU tune.

It would just be much better if Toyota would just release a manual 3.0L model themselves, at the very least so that those of us in California don't have to skirt around smog testing issues (ECU error codes or checksum flags in the programming) once the cars age enough years to require their regular plug-in OBD2 smog tests.

I realize that not all readers will need to be concerned about that last part but prospective California Supra owners will be.
 

KahnBB6

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Just to repost here for those who don't already know... here is a May 2017 spy shot of a prototype new generation BMW Z4 with a manual transmission. Presumably this is a 2.0L model. But it does prove that a LHD manual version of the co-developed underlying chassis/platform exists or did exist during the R&D and prototyping stage.

It is not as if the Z4 and Supra were not initially engineered for both the ZF automatic *and* manual transmission hardware, the engine size application for it aside.

If Toyota actually wanted to listen to customer demand for this, their globally iconic sportscar model, they could release a manual variant. Especially since this will be the last Supra generation where this will even be possible.

And that's what is most frustrating. Once the A90 ceases production a number of years from now all the manual arguments won't matter anyway. But at current time... they certainly do.

It's nowhere near close to the reasons why the Corvette C8 didn't get a manual. In that case they went to a mid engine dry sump transaxle layout. There were no existing transaxles that met the needs of their new Vette so one had to be designed from scratch. Still, there was enough demand to offer a manual C8 given its popularity and manual take rate but since it wasn't as simple as adapting an existing manual gearbox from an OEM supplier that more than likely is why they nixed it for the Vette.

But in the case of the Supra MKV (and BMW Z4) the excuses hold very little water. The R&D, parts and manual transmission designs DO already exist. The entire driveline of the 2020 model Supras consist of off the shelf BMW parts that received Toyota tweaking and failure testing but which were all derived from existing parts bin components and assemblies for the most part (and no this is not an allusion to one of those "but it's not a Supra" arguments. I'm not going there nor am I interested in that).

Echoing what Jeff said above, all the parts to release a manual Supra 3.0L already exist. And people are asking for it despite the ZF8 auto's reputation and good reception.

Toyota does not need to design a strong BMW manual gearbox, clutch disc(s), pressure plate(s), manual pedal parts, clutch master and slave cylinder, etc. from scratch. These components already exist.

All they have to do is decide to actually put the right arrangement of parts together in a manual variant and write an ECU tune that will work with it all.... if they only would.

2019-bmw-z4-spy-photo.jpg


From: https://www.bmwblog.com/2017/05/23/2019-bmw-z4-spyshots-confirm-manual-gearbox/
 
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s219

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Just to repost here for those who don't already know... here is a May 2017 spy shot of a prototype new generation BMW Z4 with a manual transmission. Presumably this is a 2.0L model. But it does prove that a LHD manual version of the co-developed underlying chassis/platform exists or did exist during the R&D and prototyping stage.

It is not as if the Z4 and Supra were not initially engineered for both the ZF automatic *and* manual transmission hardware, the engine size application for it aside.

If Toyota actually wanted to listen to customer demand for this, their globally iconic sportscar model, they could release a manual variant. Especially since this will be the last Supra generation where this will even be possible.

And that's what is most frustrating. Once the A90 ceases production a number of years from now all the manual arguments won't matter anyway. But at current time... they certainly do.

It's nowhere near close to the reasons why the Corvette C8 didn't get a manual. In that case they went to a mid engine dry sump transaxle layout. There were no existing transaxles that met the needs of their new Vette so one had to be designed from scratch. Still, there was enough demand to offer a manual C8 given its popularity and manual take rate but since it wasn't as simple as adapting an existing manual gearbox from an OEM supplier that more than likely is why they nixed it for the Vette.

But in the case of the Supra MKV (and BMW Z4) the excuses hold very little water. The R&D, parts and manual transmission designs DO already exist. The entire driveline of the 2020 model Supras consist of off the shelf BMW parts that received Toyota tweaking and failure testing but which were all derived from existing parts bin components and assemblies for the most part (and no this is not an allusion to one of those "but it's not a Supra" arguments. I'm not going there nor am I interested in that).

Echoing what Jeff said above, all the parts to release a manual Supra 3.0L already exist. And people are asking for it despite the ZF8 auto's reputation and good reception.

Toyota does not need to design a strong BMW manual gearbox, clutch disc(s), pressure plate(s), manual pedal parts, clutch master and slave cylinder, etc. from scratch. These components already exist.

All they have to do is decide to actually put the right arrangement of parts together in a manual variant and write an ECU tune that will work with it all.... if they only would.

2019-bmw-z4-spy-photo.jpg


From: https://www.bmwblog.com/2017/05/23/2019-bmw-z4-spyshots-confirm-manual-gearbox/

I couldn't have said it better myself!!

One frequent comment over the last few months is that maybe Toyota did not like any of BMW's manual transmissions, making an off-the-shelf configuration undesirable. But now we have Tada saying people should get an 86 if they want manual. Well, I owned an 86 and that manual (Toyota unit derived from Aisin, I believe) was good but not great. It was certainly not head over heels better than the best BMW manuals. I wouldn't want one of the sloppy/rubbery manuals BMW puts in lesser models, but they have had some good ones in M cars.
 

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I couldn't have said it better myself!!

One frequent comment over the last few months is that maybe Toyota did not like any of BMW's manual transmissions, making an off-the-shelf configuration undesirable. But now we have Tada saying people should get an 86 if they want manual. Well, I owned an 86 and that manual (Toyota unit derived from Aisin, I believe) was good but not great. It was certainly not head over heels better than the best BMW manuals. I wouldn't want one of the sloppy/rubbery manuals BMW puts in lesser models, but they have had some good ones in M cars.
I'm taking Tada's remark as a "let's see what you got" towards people designing aftermarket manuals
 

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In an Autoblog interview up today, the chief engineer indicated that " There will be no manual transmission, despite an outcry in parts of the enthusiast community over the lack of a row-it-yourself shifter. His advice: 'Customers who want a manual should choose the Toyota 86.'"

So MT fans have now been given the official Toyota finger.
Just curious, do you know if this is an official ‘NO’ for the the A90 that it will NEVER get a manual, or a ‘NO’ that a manual won’t be offered for now?
 

Hakkim23

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I am deeply saddened by this
I know that part of the reason is that it will affect 86 sales in a negative way
But what the GR Supra lacks compared to the Cayman and even the M2 is a manual transmission
I like the way how the GR Supra is different in its league but it will have its true potential with a stick shift
Hopefully Toyota will change their minds and offer a manual transmission for the GR Supra
Because the GR Supra would be a true sports car with the manual transmission
Now I'm searching for manual swap kits when I get my Supra
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