Paint Protection Film or Coating or ?

BigRuski said:

Hey guys I am wrapping a Supra at the moment and I see so much misinformation. Just to guide you guys with this process.

@XPEL Jeff is that you?

XPEL Stealth glue is actually weaker then other films ( I have tried all). The finish comes out better and good installers will use hot filtered water to do install and it helps with stretching.

If you guys are searching for a PPF shop, check if they have wrapped Gwagons. They are the hardest cars to wrap (no bad shop can do them) or full hoods on Dodge Rams.

If you have any questions feel free to ask, I have 9 years experience, have done some crazy jobs.

Pricing wise:

Bad shops will always charge less

Precut only shops (same category as bad shops) will charge less. (Faster to do)

Average car full wrap is $6500
Difficult cars $7000
Gwagons $8000 - $10000
(Supras will soon be in Gwagons price range for anyone that can 1 piece the front bumper) matte film is impossible to 1pc front bumper and rear bumper (only if you remove tail lights / diffuser and exhaust)

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An Xpel rep that is the supplier to over 15 states told me directly that Xpel’s adhesive is stronger than Suntek’s (and that Xpel Stealth’s adhesive is stronger than Suntek Matte’s); he mentioned that Xpel can come out looking great but you need a “good” shop to make it look right. The shop I’m working with mentioned the same thing (they recently did a Supra clear PPF install freehand for someone on these boards who wanted their car PPF’ed before the patterns were out), so it’s interesting to hear that Xpel’s adhesive is weaker in your experience.

Supra Dupra said:

An Xpel rep that is the supplier to over 15 states told me directly that Xpel’s adhesive is stronger than Suntek’s (and that Xpel Stealth’s adhesive is stronger than Suntek Matte’s); he mentioned that Xpel can come out looking great but you need a “good” shop to make it look right. The shop I’m working with mentioned the same thing (they recently did a Supra clear PPF install freehand for someone on these boards who wanted their car PPF’ed before the patterns were out), so it’s interesting to hear that Xpel’s adhesive is weaker in your experience.

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Adhesive itself is actually weaker on XPEL from what I have found. I have a Suntek roll right beside me right now as we speak (this client does small jobs on his own) and 2 rolls of XPEL.

Difference between installers is, they use different mixture of slip and tack solutions. Some add alcohol to their slip solution (because they like stretching and want it to tack right away instead of waiting and let the film mold into the spot), some do a 70/30 split for Tack solution.

I use very little bit of alcohol and 0 in the soap. This let's me see the exact strength of the adhesive.

BigRuski said:

Adhesive itself is actually weaker on XPEL from what I have found. I have a Suntek roll right beside me right now as we speak (this client does small jobs on his own) and 2 rolls of XPEL.

Difference between installers is, they use different mixture of slip and tack solutions. Some add alcohol to their slip solution (because they like stretching and want it to tack right away instead of waiting and let the film mold into the spot), some do a 70/30 split for Tack solution.

I use very little bit of alcohol and 0 in the soap. This let's me see the exact strength of the adhesive.

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Just so people do not get confused. Adhesive on XPEL being weaker or Suntek does not mean its prone to lifting. It's only an issue to an installer. End result is the same. The only film I have found to have the worst adhesive is Hexis, they lost North American market and are trying to sell to other companies who are rebranding it, calling it their own but the film is complete garbage.

@BigRuski Quick question: You've mentioned here and elsewhere that Gwagons are one of the most difficult cars to PPF - why exactly is that? They seem rather boxy and look as though they would be one of the easier cars to wrap since there aren't really any curves or areas that, to a layman such as myself, would seem difficult to wrap.

Also, just in case anyone is interested, Xpel and Suntek both offer data sheets of their PPFs (here are the ones for Xpel, and here are the ones for Suntek). Based on this, it looks like Xpel Stealth is thicker than Suntek Matte not because of the top coat (which is the reason I'd been told over the phone), but because of extra adhesive (both have a 0.5mm clearcoat and a 6.0 polyurethane undercoat, but Xpel has 1.6mm of adhesive whereas Suntek has 1.5mm of adhesive, so it's 8.0mm versus 8.1mm of thickness for Xpel and Suntek, respectively).

Supra Dupra said:

@BigRuski Quick question: You've mentioned here and elsewhere that Gwagons are one of the most difficult cars to PPF - why exactly is that? They seem rather boxy and look as though they would be one of the easier cars to wrap since there aren't really any curves or areas that, to a layman such as myself, would seem difficult to wrap.

Also, just in case anyone is interested, Xpel and Suntek both offer data sheets of their PPFs (here are the ones for Xpel, and here are the ones for Suntek). Based on this, it looks like Xpel Stealth is thicker than Suntek Matte not because of the top coat (which is the reason I'd been told over the phone), but because of extra adhesive (both have a 0.5mm clearcoat and a 6.0 polyurethane undercoat, but Xpel has 1.6mm of adhesive whereas Suntek has 1.5mm of adhesive, so it's 8.0mm versus 8.1mm of thickness for Xpel and Suntek, respectively).

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Ok, I'll try to go easy on the explanation and only mention a few panels.

Doing ppf is all about understanding curves and angles. Amount of tension and direction of pull and overhand grip or underhand grip. Alot of things matter. Ppf is a 2dimensional product which is fit on to a 3dimensional surface.

Distance between a flat panel and a panel that has elevation (curve) in the middle is different creating extra skin of film in areas you cant get rid of it. Picture Point A, Point B and Point C. Point A is 60" Point B (has a scoop with a 1.5" raise) 63" and point C is 60". You need to figure out to make it so that point B is equivalent distance as point A and C.

Hood of a Gwagon = Curves / front tips have a slant downwards + a 45 degree curvature + a dip at the end of it and a flat panel at the top that does a 90 degree bend. Try to apply earlier example of distance to this.

The headlights are another world I will add a picture how I wrap them custom with no seams.


The trim on the sides have an unnatural bend if you look at the curvature that the frame bends into the trim, you need to be able to pull it and do a trim with a knife mid air because the trim wont let you put the film down (you are guessing where the cut will be so that it hides behind it) removing the trim is difficult because it increases cost + its bendable rubber (due to plastic strip in the middle of it) and you need to remove entire door panels to get to the screws and glued on.

Rear Quarterpanels used to be in several pieces on old G wagons the curve at the back you were able to do it in 1 piece and quarterpanel in 1 PC.
The 2019 Gwagon (entire rear bend / quarterpanel / rocker / bpillar and a pillar and above the doors and the panel where it says V8 Biturbo which also has a small trim and no room to stretch is ALL entire 1 pcs. 1 screw up installing and you lost over $500 easily. Just from 1 side. Alot of people struggle with Gwagons. Just do a test, call places and ask for 2019 Gwagon full wrap custom by hand how much lol

Rear door latches get in the way for drivers side quarterpanel as well, not allowing you to stretch over and the top part at the back or the quarter has a wave that goes upwards with the trim which makes it even worse.


Lol i can keep going

I now have had my supra for 1 month and washed it 3 times ! I would highly recommend ceramic coating and ppf up front . It’s my first car doing so and the results after washing are impressive, looks brand new again! Well worth the investment!

View attachment 15600

BigRuski said:

Ok, I'll try to go easy on the explanation and only mention a few panels.

Doing ppf is all about understanding curves and angles. Amount of tension and direction of pull and overhand grip or underhand grip. Alot of things matter. Ppf is a 2dimensional product which is fit on to a 3dimensional surface.

Distance between a flat panel and a panel that has elevation (curve) in the middle is different creating extra skin of film in areas you cant get rid of it. Picture Point A, Point B and Point C. Point A is 60" Point B (has a scoop with a 1.5" raise) 63" and point C is 60". You need to figure out to make it so that point B is equivalent distance as point A and C.

Hood of a Gwagon = Curves / front tips have a slant downwards + a 45 degree curvature + a dip at the end of it and a flat panel at the top that does a 90 degree bend. Try to apply earlier example of distance to this.

The headlights are another world I will add a picture how I wrap them custom with no seams.

The trim on the sides have an unnatural bend if you look at the curvature that the frame bends into the trim, you need to be able to pull it and do a trim with a knife mid air because the trim wont let you put the film down (you are guessing where the cut will be so that it hides behind it) removing the trim is difficult because it increases cost + its bendable rubber (due to plastic strip in the middle of it) and you need to remove entire door panels to get to the screws and glued on.

Rear Quarterpanels used to be in several pieces on old G wagons the curve at the back you were able to do it in 1 piece and quarterpanel in 1 PC.
The 2019 Gwagon (entire rear bend / quarterpanel / rocker / bpillar and a pillar and above the doors and the panel where it says V8 Biturbo which also has a small trim and no room to stretch is ALL entire 1 pcs. 1 screw up installing and you lost over $500 easily. Just from 1 side. Alot of people struggle with Gwagons. Just do a test, call places and ask for 2019 Gwagon full wrap custom by hand how much lol

Rear door latches get in the way for drivers side quarterpanel as well, not allowing you to stretch over and the top part at the back or the quarter has a wave that goes upwards with the trim which makes it even worse.


Lol i can keep going

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Bruins71 said:

I now have had my supra for 1 month and washed it 3 times ! I would highly recommend ceramic coating and ppf up front . It’s my first car doing so and the results after washing are impressive, looks brand new again! Well worth the investment!

View attachment 15600

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@Bruins71 I would recommend editing the photo and removing your address off of it. Just in case. Supras are a new commodity you NEVER know.

Did anyone end up doing Ceramic Pro Gold on the entire car? If so, mind if I ask what you paid?

I am looking into doing ceramic on my supra. I don't know much about what types, but the shop i'll be taking it to use Modesta 04,05,and 08. i know it's around 1600 to get it done. Is this brand worth it over the XPEL?

whostorm05 said:

Did anyone end up doing Ceramic Pro Gold on the entire car? If so, mind if I ask what you paid?

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I did, $2000 Canadian.

Looking at my invoice, it was $1500CAD (without tax) for the gold package and then another $200CAD for paint correction (the guy actually only charged me 2/3 of a regular correction because it's such a small car).

Bruins71 said:

I now have had my supra for 1 month and washed it 3 times ! I would highly recommend ceramic coating and ppf up front . It’s my first car doing so and the results after washing are impressive, looks brand new again! Well worth the investment!

View attachment 15600

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Could you share close up pictures of PPF on your car? Is it 1 piece on the hood and front bumper? Did they wrap the edges?

I recently got a quote from a local XPEL shop for what he called the "high impact areas". I'm assuming it is the front, rocker panels and the front of the rear tire opening. Quote came to $2800. I was told wrapped edges and one piece hood.

I may have overpaid a bit for my Ceramic Pro Gold, but I think I got a decent deal on the full frontal PPF so it's likely a wash in the end.

Hello all,

Thank you all for the XPEL support. We wanted to share that it IS possible to do the Supra hood in 1 piece of XPEL 60" film. We've had many shops confirm this is doable although requires quite a bit of technique.

XPEL said:

Hello all,

Thank you all for the XPEL support. We wanted to share that it IS possible to do the Supra hood in 1 piece of XPEL 60" film. We've had many shops confirm this is doable although requires quite a bit of technique.

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My current shop is leaning towards doing it with one 60" piece (they said that they have to be very careful to do it that way and avoid stretch marks, though). That's the last piece they have to do on the car before it's completely wrapped, so I'm interested to see how it turns out.

Of course, it would be great if you all could put out the 72" Stealth sheets at some point in the near future so we don't have to worry about this problem!