šŸ‘£ Official: Toyota Announces Manual Transmission Supra!

Only interested if it comes in manual?


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ToyoBMW

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Iā€™ve only owned manuals for over twenty years now and Iā€™ve had to drive them in some of the worst rush hour traffic.

I still prefer manual transmissions over automatics on the street. Traffic sucks no matter what kind of vehicle or transmission you use.

Having a manual in a low powered car is definitely prerequisite. Having a manual in a decently powerful and torquey sports car or muscle car driven around town, in traffic or on the highway is even further amplified interactive fun.

To each their own. As good as any automatic-only car may be, if a manual version of another very good car is available Iā€™m going to go for that other car simply because I enjoy shifting gears myself.

Hopefully with all the cost savings and parts bin sharing and existing parts reworking on the A90 so far to keep the overall vehicle and packages affordable Toyota will find a good solution for a 3.0L manual.
The only way to get a manual is if BMW is on board to put one in the z4. If BMW decides against the z4 getting a manual for the v6, then Toyota won't get one. All the parts are in Europe in the BMW parts bin, nothing is Toyota. There is no way BMW will share a manual transmission from their parts bin, just for Toyota to use......and allow Toyota to take all the sales from their Z4
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KahnBB6

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The only way to get a manual is if BMW is on board to put one in the z4. If BMW decides against the z4 getting a manual for the v6, then Toyota won't get one. All the parts are in Europe in the BMW parts bin, nothing is Toyota. There is no way BMW will share a manual transmission from their parts bin, just for Toyota to use......and allow Toyota to take all the sales from their Z4
V6...? These cars don't have V6 engine options.

BMW announced a Z4 2.0T Manual variant for Europe only a couple of months back so there's that to begin with.

And if both companies do the wrong thing and don't release manual Supra and Z4 trim levels then that leaves the BMW M2C 6-speed M/T as the only contender outside of a Mustang, Camaro or Z. And I guess the Porsche Cayman too because that's supposedly this car's direct competition benchmark and it's been offering a 6-speed manual gearbox for years.

...Which would be a terrible shame because the Supra is really great! But... I would never buy it without a manual as I wouldn't be racing it on the track and thus have no practical need or motivated desire to give up manual shifting.

Plus it would be nice to have a factory warranty on an expensive new sportscar and I am not holding my breath that the European Auto Group manual swaps would allow someone to pass CA smog testing normally like any other car with the plug-in OBD2 test or the visual inspection if the technician scratches their head when they see a manual transmission in there but the vehicle test data clearly says "Supra 3.0L Turbo 8 speed automatic".

One should never compromise on the hard options they want in a car for the money the Supra, Z4 and M2 Competition go for.

Until we get headlong into hybrid gas-electric and full electric with these models a manual is expected on one or more trim levels, especially one with an inline-six turbo but also on any four cylinder models which will definitely need a manual to make the 200hp, 250-260hp and 280hp guises of the 2.0T be pleasurable in the Supra chassis.
 

ToyoBMW

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V6...? These cars don't have V6 engine options.

BMW announced a Z4 2.0T Manual variant for Europe only a couple of months back so there's that to begin with.

And if both companies do the wrong thing and don't release manual Supra and Z4 trim levels then that leaves the BMW M2C 6-speed M/T as the only contender outside of a Mustang, Camaro or Z. And I guess the Porsche Cayman too because that's supposedly this car's direct competition benchmark and it's been offering a 6-speed manual gearbox for years.

...Which would be a terrible shame because the Supra is really great! But... I would never buy it without a manual as I wouldn't be racing it on the track and thus have no practical need or motivated desire to give up manual shifting.

One should never compromise on the hard options they want in a car for the money the Supra, Z4 and M2 Competition go for.

Until we get headlong into hybrid gas-electric and full electric with these models a manual is expected on one or more trim levels, especially one with an inline-six turbo.
Not sure what I was thinking when I typed v6. Must be thinking Toyota.

Anyways, for a manual to come around to the Supra, it can only happen if they use the same 4cyl as the z4 with the manual. Nothing for the inline 6. I'm pretty sure BMW is content to have manuals for their other coupes m2,m3,m4 so they don't really need a manual for the z4m.

If everybody thinks Toyota will have a manual Supra, then it'll be a 4cyl Supra.......which will then kill the 86
 

KahnBB6

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"Thinking Toyota"? I'm confused. What do you mean?

There is only one model year out yet and I assume at least nine more to go. You seem to have all the data, options and packages on all the A90 Supra model years mapped out until 2030 from the sound of things even better than Toyota does.

And yes, it does stand to reason that if the BMW Z4 in Europe is getting a 2.0T manual then the Supra is getting a 2.0T manual as well. And BMW already announced that specific variant so...
 

ToyoBMW

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"Thinking Toyota"? I'm confused. What do you mean?

There is only one model year out yet and I assume at least nine more to go. You seem to have all the data, options and packages on all the A90 Supra model years mapped out until 2030 from the sound of things even better than Toyota does.

And yes, it does stand to reason that if the BMW Z4 in Europe is getting a 2.0T manual then the Supra is getting a 2.0T manual as well. And BMW already announced that specific variant so...
"thinking Toyota", the car company with 4cyl, v6,v8 cars

I don't have a crystal ball that will tell the future of the Supra, just my opinions
 

KahnBB6

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"thinking Toyota", the car company with 4cyl, v6,v8 cars

I don't have a crystal ball that will tell the future of the Supra, just my opinions
Toyota has at one time or another made just about every type of common passenger vehicle engine outside of a Wankel, inline-5, flat-12 or the unique W-configuration engines that VW Group has used in one form or another for years. They also currently make one V12 (for the the non-hybrid variant of the Century sedan/limousine) and only a handful of years back made a V10.

Anyway which company currently makes what engine doesn't matter so much as in maybe a decade or more both Toyota and BMW probably won't be making engines at all any longer or if they do they will be complicated hybrids or range extender engines. That's not the only reason but one of the largest reasons why Toyota partnered with Subaru for the GT86 and with BMW for the Supra. The mega R&D money is not being allocated for niche chassis and engines that will only be used in one car.

Mazda apparently has a tie-up in the works with Toyota to leverage the larger company to co-develop luxury models with their own R&D'd I-6 engine family so we can probably look forward to that weird tie-up in the future too in the nearer term: Lexus models with Mazda I-6 engines.

...

I know you can't predict the future exactly for this car. None of us can. The aspect of its production that is the most interesting to me is that outside of some things we do know are coming for sure (the GT4 race car and the GRMN) there is near a decade of leeway for Tetsuya Tada and company to play a bit with what is on offer for this chassis throughout the production run.

Given that this isn't a Toyota Camry or RAV4 we're clamoring to have a manual transmission but rather a storied and iconic Toyota sports car that people like to tune I'm still inclined to entertain the idea that a global manual transmission version is still possible.

We only have one model year so far.
 

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This is fantastic! Exactly what Iā€™d hoped for from an aftermarket solution!

Now they just need to solve tuning all the bugs out of the ECU, give it a strong twin disc clutch and it will be set.

Everything else is just icing on top after that.

I hope Toyota takes notice. They should.

Supraman, yeah, the only rub is buying a $55k+(+) Supra, then immediately spending $12k on top of that and also losing ALL your factory warranty coverage for even the smallest of things or any standard recalls that would have nothing to do with the installation of this manual transmission.

Plus for California residents this will most likely get a smog test inspection rejection based on it failing the visual portion (ie: ā€œthis car never came with a manual transmissionā€” automatic smog test failā€).

So... yes this makes me very excited but at the same time it only makes me even more annoyed that Toyotaā€™s reluctance to confirm a manual gearbox option on the 3.0L would make me dismiss the Supra A90 entirely as a purchase consideration in favor of any other automakerā€™s sportscar that does offer a manual.

Again... hereā€™s hoping Toyota and Tada-san take notice of how straightforward this swap really is once EAG and Boostlogic develop a custom ECU flash tune for the manual swap.
 
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MA617M

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Other than my C63, this was the first car I've willingly bought that was automatic (and my 7th or 8th Supra)

It's actually pretty good, with plenty of character and personality - which was my main concern - so many new cars are devoid of life and character and while they're fast, functional.... they're soulless.

Thankfully the A90, even with the ZF8, has plenty of soul. You can "clutch kick" it too (throw in N while rolling - rev - slap into gear lol)
 

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^^ Isnā€™t that a good way to damage an automatic transmission with enough such slams from neutral back into Drive at speed?
 

ToyoBMW

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The $12000 aftermarket manual conversation really is not viable until your warranty runs out. Imagine having a first year car with some bugs and can't address them because you spent $12000 to void your warranty. Only people I see doing this, will be people doing it as a business so they can sell some upgrade parts, using it as a write off.....or people with more money than they know what to do with.

But I still don't see Toyota doing this straight from the factory. BMW would need to be on board to give Toyota a 6 speed to compete with their M coupes.....so I would say no go. The inline 6 Z4 is priced for older folks to enjoy when they retire, can't see much demand for a 6 speed on the BMW side.

BUT....this may be Toyota's plan all along. To have a GR division similar to Ford's Shelby to custom build cars with more HP and charge a lot more money for features people actually want.
 

MA617M

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^^ Isnā€™t that a good way to damage an automatic transmission with enough such slams from neutral back into Drive at speed?
Yeah, shock loading is not a good thing. I just wanted to prove the concept - just like you can "clutch in" with the GT3 911 by holding both paddles
 

KahnBB6

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The $12000 aftermarket manual conversation really is not viable until your warranty runs out. Imagine having a first year car with some bugs and can't address them because you spent $12000 to void your warranty. Only people I see doing this, will be people doing it as a business so they can sell some upgrade parts, using it as a write off.....or people with more money than they know what to do with.

But I still don't see Toyota doing this straight from the factory. BMW would need to be on board to give Toyota a 6 speed to compete with their M coupes.....so I would say no go. The inline 6 Z4 is priced for older folks to enjoy when they retire, can't see much demand for a 6 speed on the BMW side.

BUT....this may be Toyota's plan all along. To have a GR division similar to Ford's Shelby to custom build cars with more HP and charge a lot more money for features people actually want.
Voiding the warranty of a first year Supra or any new model year Supra is a strong pause consideration for sure.

But itā€™s like a chicken and egg issue: no factory manual offered means the aftermarket EAG swap for $12k is currently the only option.

And that means youā€™d have to want to live with a new automatic-only sportscar until the warranty runs out or wait a few years to get one used out of warranty that youā€™d hope (naively) has been taken care of and not abused and trashed.

So therefore if a manual transmission and NEW sportscar with factory warranty (and the ability to pass smog normally in CA with your NEW car) are non-negotiable points then the answer = no Supra at all and buy another high performance vehicle competitor that does offer a manual from the factory.

Which is stupid because unlike with a C8 Corvetteā€™s design or R35ā€™s design it is 100% possible and proven so to offer a manual transmission even with existing new parts.

Itā€™s also a loss because otherwise this is a great and preferable car. But until these cars are fully into hybrid gas-electric and full electric powertrains itā€™s entirely possible so... I donā€™t care about Toyota and BMWā€™s reasons and justifications for not offering a stick (unless they are actually quietly working on it already). I only care that they currently arenā€™t.

Your theory that maybe the answer is higher priced special editions (one would hope in sufficiently high volumes) that will offer options like more power, a stick, a DCT track edition, etc. sounds like something Iā€™d expect but why not just spread out the cost for a manual more and offer it across the range?

Ichitaka recently made a thread that did pose that very scenario: if a manual 3.0L WERE to be made available but at a $4k or so extra premium would that be acceptable?

A lot of responders didnā€™t hesitate to answer ā€œyesā€.

That would be fine.
 
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Turbro

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Iā€™d gladly pay $4k-$6k extra for a manual option worst case scenario. Heck would be a hard choice for $60k manual supra vs dct c8. I bet that manual steals sells from Chevy if it existed.
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