Active Autowerke | MKV Supra EPA Approved Catted Downpipe

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Extreme Power House

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No, definitely not. There is no cat is the exhaust itself. The factory downpipe has a two stage cat in it, you can see that clearly on photos of them.

This downpipe only has a single stage cat.

Maybe they have a work around to make it EPA legal, I dunno. Really wish AA would chime in here, very confusing.
Different states have different laws, i believe the answer is going to vary but im not an emission expert so im not sure.
Its best to ask someone in your state if using an EPA approved cat is enough to make the downpipe legal
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Our downpipe will show readiness during inspection. The catalytic converter we are using has been approved by the EPA as a replacement for OEM converters. The Mobile Source Enforcement Memorandum 1A that I've linked below allows for aftermarket parts to be used in the repair or replacement of emissions control systems, provided that emissions aren't adversely affected. The GESI converter that we use will produce emissions that meet the standards of the EPA.

https://afdc.energy.gov/files/pdfs/2753.pdf
 

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Our downpipe will show readiness during inspection. The catalytic converter we are using has been approved by the EPA as a replacement for OEM converters. The Mobile Source Enforcement Memorandum 1A that I've linked below allows for aftermarket parts to be used in the repair or replacement of emissions control systems, provided that emissions aren't adversely affected. The GESI converter that we use will produce emissions that meet the standards of the EPA.

https://afdc.energy.gov/files/pdfs/2753.pdf
Thanks for chiming in!

But, I'm still confused.

I know the cat is EPA approved, but you guys are selling a complete downpipe.

Is this complete downpipe EPA approved?

My emission guy is going to look for a second cat, and there won't be one.

What do I show him? Is there an EPA cert for the downpipe?

I'm from the VW modding scene, and this was a huge topic there. All of the downpipes sold for dubs removed the second cat, and the verdict there was that if you removed an emissions device, you were in EPA violation at least (and in some cases also in state violation).
 
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Thanks for chiming in!

But, I'm still confused.

I know the cat is EPA approved, but you guys are selling a complete downpipe.

Is this complete downpipe EPA approved?

My emission guy is going to look for a second cat, and there won't be one.

What do I show him? Is there an EPA cert for the downpipe?

I'm from the VW modding scene, and this was a huge topic there. All of the downpipes sold for dubs removed the second cat, and the verdict there was that if you removed an emissions device, you were in EPA violation at least (and in some cases also in state violation).
The memorandum does not specify a specific rating system such as a cell count or a requirement for X amount of converters. It states that aftermarket parts can be used to replace emissions systems as long as the emissions are not adversely affected. Whether or not this will be taken in to account during your visual inspection I can't say. I'm not certain that any bolt on products can be "EPA approved" but the components used to manufacture them can be. If a catalytic converter is EPA approved, but a pipe with it installed is not legal, then what's the point of the approval on the piece as a standalone unit in the first place if once it's installed it's no longer legal?

The EPA doesn't issue actual certs, but I can break down the EPA number on our cats that is:

N/GBL/4389/XXXX where N stands for New, GBL is the GESI manufacturer code, 4389 is the part number registered with the EPA, and XXXX is the month/year that the specific piece was manufactured. The technology in the GESI cat being used has specifically met EPA protocol 40CFR86.
 

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Cool, sounds like same dealio as VW world.

Your downpipe keeps the CEL off and readiness codes set, but it isn't EPA approved because the secondary cats were removed (that raises the tailpipe emissions).

Darn, I was hoping this was the Holy Grail of downpipes when I saw the EPA stuff!
 
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Cool, sounds like same dealio as VW world.

Your downpipe keeps the CEL off and readiness codes set, but it isn't EPA approved because the secondary cats were removed (that raises the tailpipe emissions).

Darn, I was hoping this was the Holy Grail of downpipes when I saw the EPA stuff!
As stated in my previous reply, I'm not familiar with any bolt on products that have their own EPA approval as the EPA only approves components and not entire assemblies. You're also making the assumption that the emissions from our downpipe are equal only to the primary cat of the OEM downpipe, but our downpipe WILL pass emissions sniffer testing at the tailpipe.

We may have to agree to disagree here because we're getting in to semantics, but I will rephrase and state that since there is no such thing as an EPA approved bolt-on assembly, our downpipe cannot be considered an EPA approved bolt-on assembly, but the components used to manufacture it do have a real EPA approval.
 

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True, my memory about secondary cats failed me, I went back and read some of the VW forum posts.

it wasn't the fact that emissions were elevated, it was the fact that a catalytic converter had been removed from the vehicle.

Removing a catalytic converter from a vehicle is a Federal fine with up to a $10k penalty.

It doesn't matter if its the primary or secondary cat that has been removed.

So your downpipe isn't technically EPA approved, because it eliminates a catalyst from the car.

https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/documents/exhsysrepair.pdf
 
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True, my memory about secondary cats failed me, I went back and read some of the VW forum posts.

it wasn't the fact that emissions were elevated, it was the fact that a catalytic converter had been removed from the vehicle.

Removing a catalytic converter from a vehicle is a Federal fine with up to a $10k penalty.

It doesn't matter if its the primary or secondary cat that has been removed.

So your downpipe isn't technically EPA approved, because it eliminates a catalyst from the car.

https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/documents/exhsysrepair.pdf
Like I said, agree to disagree. The Memorandum I posted above specifies that the EPA approved converters can be used to replace catalytic converters. It does NOT specify a cell count or quantity of converters, so long as emissions are not adversely affected. I'm also familiar with that Clean Air Act, all of the references and situations in that document refer to the primary catalytic converter being replaced with a straight pipe. We are replacing with another catalytic converter.

No one is forcing you to purchase our product or even agree with us. Please move on.
 

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Huh, I thought we were having a convo. I'm just trying to get all the info in order, this is a confusing topic.

The EPA link I posted is clear:

Under federal law, catalytic converters may not be removed
and replaced with "converter replacement pipes' by any person.
The 1990 Clean Air Act Amendments even prohibit private
individuals from installing "converter replacement pipes" on their
own vehicles. Anyone who installs such pipes would violate section
203(a)(3)(A) and (B) of the Clean Air Act (Act).

The downpipe you are selling removes the secondary cat, right? And where the secondary cat was is now an open pipe?

If that's not the case, then I'm 100% good with your downpipe being EPA compliant.

I'm just trying to learn here.
 
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Huh, I thought we were having a convo. I'm just trying to get all the info in order, this is a confusing topic.

The EPA link I posted is clear:

Under federal law, catalytic converters may not be removed
and replaced with "converter replacement pipes' by any person.
The 1990 Clean Air Act Amendments even prohibit private
individuals from installing "converter replacement pipes" on their
own vehicles. Anyone who installs such pipes would violate section
203(a)(3)(A) and (B) of the Clean Air Act (Act).

The downpipe you are selling removes the secondary cat, right? And where the secondary cat was is now an open pipe?

If that's not the case, then I'm 100% good with your downpipe being EPA compliant.

I'm just trying to learn here.
No need to play dumb, I would be willing to have a conversation but I don't believe that you are here to provide any real input. Please move on, I noticed you joined the forum just to post in this thread. I cannot keep reiterating the same exact thing over and over. You keep changing your angle, first it was the increased emissions but when I mentioned that we would pass a sniffer test you moved over to the removal of a secondary cat, to which I have stated that we are replacing the catalytic converter system with one that does not adversely affect emissions. The memorandum posted does NOT specify a cell count or cat quantity. If you don't feel comfortable using our product, then please don't. But please do not reply again in this thread because we are getting nowhere. If you reply again I will have to report your posts because this thread is getting cluttered.
 

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Our downpipe will show readiness during inspection. The catalytic converter we are using has been approved by the EPA as a replacement for OEM converters. The Mobile Source Enforcement Memorandum 1A that I've linked below allows for aftermarket parts to be used in the repair or replacement of emissions control systems, provided that emissions aren't adversely affected. The GESI converter that we use will produce emissions that meet the standards of the EPA.

https://afdc.energy.gov/files/pdfs/2753.pdf
I have already taken the risk and ordered one through Extreme Power House. I am in Australia so EPA might be a bit different.

I don't suppose the following information can be provided on the downpipe with an otherwise stock car:
  • Highest exhaust noise level? (<90db required here)
  • Carbon Monoxide % when idle? (<4.5 required here)
  • Hydrocarbon limit (ppm) when idle? (<600 required here)
  • Carbon Monoxide % when high idle (2,500-3,000 rpm)? (<1.0 required here)
  • Hydrocarbon limit (ppm) when high idle (2,500-3,000 rpm)? (<200 required here)
I took the risk because some 200 cell cats for other cars pass the tests and the stock Australian and US exhausts seem the same. But it could be useful information for others less willing to take the risk.

Thanks in advance.
 

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David,

I ordered one of your catted downpipes from Extreme. I will be moving from a non-emissions TX county to Houston in a few months and will be able to tell you if it passes inspection at that time. Worse case scenario, I have to bolt the stock DP back on for an hour to retest. Thanks for responding on this thread and building a great product!
 
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David,

I ordered one of your catted downpipes from Extreme. I will be moving from a non-emissions TX county to Houston in a few months and will be able to tell you if it passes inspection at that time. Worse case scenario, I have to bolt the stock DP back on for an hour to retest. Thanks for responding on this thread and building a great product!
You shouldn't have any issues with our DP, but please do keep me updated!
 
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I have already taken the risk and ordered one through Extreme Power House. I am in Australia so EPA might be a bit different.

I don't suppose the following information can be provided on the downpipe with an otherwise stock car:
  • Highest exhaust noise level? (<90db required here)
  • Carbon Monoxide % when idle? (<4.5 required here)
  • Hydrocarbon limit (ppm) when idle? (<600 required here)
  • Carbon Monoxide % when high idle (2,500-3,000 rpm)? (<1.0 required here)
  • Hydrocarbon limit (ppm) when high idle (2,500-3,000 rpm)? (<200 required here)
I took the risk because some 200 cell cats for other cars pass the tests and the stock Australian and US exhausts seem the same. But it could be useful information for others less willing to take the risk.

Thanks in advance.
Unfortunately I don't have that detailed information, as it will vary from vehicle to vehicle, especially if yours is tuned. But if your tests are comparable to the US tests you will be fine.
 
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