Any MKV Owners Coming from a Dual Clutch Trans Car?

sdot

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Can someone who has spent significant time with a good DCT shed some light on how the Supra’s ZF8 stacks up? How noticeable is the difference in shift speed? Do you miss the experience of a DCT? Do you prefer the ZF8?
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a90moe

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Can someone who has spent significant time with a good DCT shed some light on how the Supra’s ZF8 stacks up? How noticeable is the difference in shift speed? Do you miss the experience of a DCT? Do you prefer the ZF8?
Haven driven DCT cars and owned a few dual clutch transmissions

ZF is very smooth in regular driving esp stop and go traffic.
Sport mode up upshifts are lightning quick.
Downshifts not on par with DCT due to lack of blip.
Low rpm upshifts are laggy in manual mode ONLY.
Kick down DCT like quickness

Hard to believe its a torque converter really
 

Nc1dent

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Can someone who has spent significant time with a good DCT shed some light on how the Supra’s ZF8 stacks up? How noticeable is the difference in shift speed? Do you miss the experience of a DCT? Do you prefer the ZF8?
For daily driving, the ZF8 in the Supra feels a lot better than the DCT in an R35. MAYBE the downshifts aren't quite as perfect, but they're damn close. The upshifts are equal, really amazing. Instant.
 

XtremeMaC

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I think almost all magazine reviews suggested that Porsche's PDK is must faster/smoother for up/down shifts.
I don't have comparable experience with a performance car DCT vs HP8..

Anyhow, there are multitude of comparisons online.
Car-Driver said:
[URL]https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a23367341/automatic-transmission-best-zf-eight-speed/[/URL]
Has the dual-clutch transmission met its match, then? You might think that’s the case, given the recent defections by the Audi RS5 and the BMW M5, which switched from dual-clutch transmissions to ZF’s 8HP torque-converter automatics. That’s also the opinion of Andy Palmer, CEO of Aston Martin, who claims ZF’s 8HP is lighter, cheaper, and quicker than a dual-clutch transmission. “Ten years ago, [the dual-clutch] still looked like the transmission of the future. Now it is starting to look like the transmission of the past,” he tells us. But the DCT finds refuge in supercars. The added length of a torque converter can be prohibitive in a mid-engine architecture, and precise launch-control programs provide an advantage in acceleration. And engineers maintain that a good dual-clutch ’box does shift quicker. “For our kind of product, it’s about a really fast shift, which the pre-engagement element of a dual-clutch gearbox helps us with. We think that’s still got a decent speed advantage,” says Marcus Waite, chief engineer of the McLaren Senna.
 
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A70TTR

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Its ~150ms on the upshift, but as said the downshift gap is wider. DCT is still faster (generally speaking), but the street manners are WAY better with the ZF, and the speed difference felt is small. A little more development though and there won't be much of an argument for DCT IMO.

R35 GTR: ~150ms
PDK: ~100ms
M-DCT: ~80ms
 
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thedude

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I’m coming from a 2016 S4 which was the last year they had DSGs and not the ZF auto from 2017+. Not the best dual clutch but the ZF seems better all around in both the newer S4 and the Supra. Definitely less clunky off the line and at low speeds where a DSG can be really wonky. The DSG would also sometimes delay downshifts (or do them slowly).
 

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I drive a Porsche GT3 RS 991.2 with PDK and sometimes the Supra on race tracks.

The issue of the Supra vs. the PDK-Porsche is not the ZF transmission and its rapidness/reaction time in switching. This is close to perfect. PDK-shocks of the GT3 RS are much heavier, but I think this is caused by 540 PS instead of 340 PS. And the GT3 RS is made for pureness and not designed for comfort. As a matter of fact, the reaction during paddling is much slower with the ZF, especially during downshifting. Sometimes helpful, sometimes painful.

The issue of the Supra lies in getting nervous at higher speeds on a race track.

I also drive a Porsche 4 GTS 991.1 with PDK, but no longer on race tracks. Supra's ZF and the PDK of the Porsche GTS are both fast enough on normals roads. PDK of the Porsche GTS is marginally softer and faster, even though the Porsche has 430 PS vs. 340 PS of the Supra. With 8 gears in the ZF of the Supra it is more "work" if you shift manually. This can be fun or annoying depending on the viewpoint. If you have the gear change in auto mode, there is no real difference.

The ZF of the Supra is a very very fast gear changing automatic transmission. The above comparisons are unfair. The GT3 RS is a completely different thing. The GTS is a 4-wheel drive, so shifting circumstances in curves are not comparable. You simply shift up or down, the car remains stable.
 

s219

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The ZF8 is impressively good and doesn't have any of the low speed quirks of a DCT. How good is subjective, though, and there is a range of performance/behavior with DCTs across brands and models so there might not be a general answer. I'd say compared to BMW DCTs in the M cars, the ZF8 is pretty darn good but not quite as good.

Unless you are a hard core enthusiast, it may not really matter. I think for average drivers, and certainly for people who are willing to forgo a proper manual transmission in a sports car, the ZF8 is awesome. It's certainly the best automatic I've ever driven, and I've had it in several BMWs.
 

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Also, no one has mentioned that you aren’t supposed to ride 1st in traffic in a DSG. So if you drive in a lot of stop and go, the auto is going to be more practical.
 

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Last 5 cars over the last 10 years for me have been DCT. This trans is smooth, its good actually. Imperceptible to me at WOT shifting speeds. Down shifts are solid too, id still rather have a DCT, imo this transmission is smooth and very quick, but the DCT still feels tighter and more crisp.
 

kona61

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I had a 997.2 with a PDK and I also have driven M2's, M3's etc. with PDK's. The ZF is comparable to all of them, except that the downshifts are not quite as snappy. Otherwise it is very similar, especially during hard driving when revving it out.
 

MA617M

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The manual upshift in the A90 arw lightning quick - but ensure you have traction control OFF

The vehicle traction control throttle, and so any upshift with less than 100% throttle are slow and doughy.

Turn it all off for whipcrack shifts and downshift blips that are lightning fast - even compared with a good double clutch.
 

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I still have my E92 M3 DCT. I absolutely love it on the track but street driving..going into reverse its a bit clunky. Not a bad clunky but in track it shines. RAW feeling if that makes any sense even though its not an analog manual car.
The Supra is a joy and is smooth as hell...on and off the track. Really shines driving on the street. I love both transmissions.
 

Axix23

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I still have my E92 M3 DCT. I absolutely love it on the track but street driving..going into reverse its a bit clunky. Not a bad clunky but in track it shines. RAW feeling if that makes any sense even though its not an analog manual car.
The Supra is a joy and is smooth as hell...on and off the track. Really shines driving on the street. I love both transmissions.
Speaking of which. How much whp-tq can these transmission hold? Somebody said 650wph/700whp easily with no issues.....
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