SupraMKV Interview with Tada-San on 2021 GR Supra

KahnBB6

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The question is how will they get to 240hp and improve the torque and stay within the required emission and fuel consumption requirements *without* a turbo.

As the current 86 stands I was quite happy with the modest power backed by its 6-speed M/T. But I also owned a similar class of small coupe years before it with the same horsepower and torque figures from a naturally aspirated engine. It also was pretty good as it was but I always wished it also had just +50tq and +50hp increases. And it weighed 200lbs more than the 86. After ten years of ownership I had become very used to it but I was wishing every day that it had a modest and reliable turbo setup to get it to at least 200tq (at lower rpm) and at least 250hp.

The current 86 is everything that old coupe wasnā€™t and then some. It blows it away on every level except torque and horsepower for its roughly 2800lb curb weight. Which, again, is still pretty good if you love the 86 as the car it is more than anything else (personally I fall into that category).

If Subaru and Toyota can go to 240-250hp in a 4cyl flat FA engine without a turbo or hybrid system and still pass all regulations then more power to them. But as much of the R&D already exists for it the easier routes would be to re-purpose an existing Subaru turbo engine or if staying NA non-hybrid... just not increase horsepower and torque much at all. I donā€™t think the latter would do much to improve sales.
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The question is how will they get to 240hp and improve the torque and stay within the required emission and fuel consumption requirements *without* a turbo.

As the current 86 stands I was quite happy with the modest power backed by its 6-speed M/T. But I also owned a similar class of small coupe years before it with the same horsepower and torque figures from a naturally aspirated engine. It also was pretty good as it was but I always wished it also had just +50tq and +50hp increases. And it weighed 200lbs more than the 86. After ten years of ownership I had become very used to it but I was wishing every day that it had a modest and reliable turbo setup to get it to at least 200tq (at lower rpm) and at least 250hp.

The current 86 is everything that old coupe wasnā€™t and then some. It blows it away on every level except torque and horsepower for its roughly 2800lb curb weight. Which, again, is still pretty good if you love the 86 as the car it is more than anything else (personally I fall into that category).

If Subaru and Toyota can go to 240-250hp in a 4cyl flat FA engine without a turbo or hybrid system and still pass all regulations then more power to them. But as much of the R&D already exists for it the easier routes would be to re-purpose an existing Subaru turbo engine or if staying NA non-hybrid... just not increase horsepower and torque much at all. I donā€™t think the latter would do much to improve sales.
Maybe non-turbo FA24? Its 2.4l so maintaining 100hp/l gives us.... 240 ;) maybe small improvement here and there and we have 250. I would like it to stay N/A for the response. Supra has a lag, even hybrid assisted McLaren P1 has a bit of lag. N/A throttle response in any gear/speed is unmatched.
My wishlist is simple: 2.4 n/a 250hp, around 270nm, manual, same steering and sitting position as current 86, good LSD and below 1300kg. No turbo, no 12831way adjustable seats, no 132 speakers. As light and as pure as possible. For me there are enough turbo sports cars to chose from already...

TRD griffon 86 going lighter with just 30 more hp staying n/a proved this car doesnt need 300hp turbo setup.
 

KahnBB6

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I agree with you in theory but other than the FA20 D4-S engine when has Subaru made another 100hp/liter naturally aspirated engine all on their own? Honda used to do that but not Subaru who have always gone to turbocharging. And Subaru is pretty good with turbos at this point.

I completely agree about keeping the other specs and design similar and simple, non-luxury, driver focused.

However other than the much larger and heavier Mustang and Camaro with turbo 4cyl engines and the now discontinued Hyundai Genesis Coupe 2.0T what other options do we have in the U.S. for front engine, rear wheel drive, small engine turbocharged, LSD equipped, manual transmission, two door driver focused coupes let alone those that are small and weigh only 2800lbs or so?

Really itā€™s not many cars. AWD and FWD turbo cars add just a few more to the mix but the 86 is a class of small and lightweight RWD 2+2 manual LSD that is virtually unchallenged by any other automaker. And now it may get a turbo added to that formula.

Japan and the rest of the world got such cars with turbos from the factory for years (Nissan Silvia S13, S14, S15, Skyline GTS-Tā€™s, Z32-TT Toyota Soarer 2.5GT, Mazda RX-7 FD, etc.) but not so much in factory trim in the United States until recent years and then only in a couple of cars here and there.

The 86 is pretty unique. If it remains as unique as it is and gains a mild turbo it will only complete the package. It definitely isnā€™t getting 300hp+. Just 240-250hp which is plenty given the increased torque available lower in the rev range.

Iā€™m just concerned when I hear A70TTR and Ichitaka so on the fence about the gen2 86/BRZ design so far.
 

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Maybe non-turbo FA24? Its 2.4l so maintaining 100hp/l gives us.... 240 ;) maybe small improvement here and there and we have 250. I would like it to stay N/A for the response. Supra has a lag, even hybrid assisted McLaren P1 has a bit of lag. N/A throttle response in any gear/speed is unmatched.
My wishlist is simple: 2.4 n/a 250hp, around 270nm, manual, same steering and sitting position as current 86, good LSD and below 1300kg. No turbo, no 12831way adjustable seats, no 132 speakers. As light and as pure as possible. For me there are enough turbo sports cars to chose from already...

TRD griffon 86 going lighter with just 30 more hp staying n/a proved this car doesnt need 300hp turbo setup.
there is a big problem though , the NA has the advantage of the response of the throttle but has more disadvantages i am afraid. FI engines can be tuned by simply adding some boost , generally more tuner friendly. Second is that it is very difficult to squeeze power from NA engines and at the same time comply with even mid- strict emission laws, here in some countries in the EU the 86 is taxed more than the 4 supra and by a lot.

Remember the s2000? it had the best NA engine ever imo, but it was discontinued for a reason , also the fact it did get a bump in displacement in its facelift didnt help at all , in fact it made things worse. I personally would welcome a turbo 86 , and i mean if the boost comes for example at 1.5k or 2k rpm is it so bad? I remember riding on a 2003 subaru sti that when it reached about 5.5k your organs reched the backseats , and it was hella fun on the bends too.
 

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I just want it to be as light as possible, under 1300. Supra is supposed to have flat torque from around 2k rpm yet it doesnt mean there is no lag, unfortunately. Twin turbo setup eliminates this better i feel, like M2 Competition I drove.

In EU we get Alpine A110 which is brilliant... ;)

Only time will tell, but such infos like this from our guys gets me really concerned... :/
 

tfoxyr

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I just want it to be as light as possible, under 1300. Supra is supposed to have flat torque from around 2k rpm yet it doesnt mean there is no lag, unfortunately. Twin turbo setup eliminates this better i feel, like M2 Competition I drove.

In EU we get Alpine A110 which is brilliant... ;)

Only time will tell, but such infos like this from our guys gets me really concerned... :/
yeap , the alpine may be actually better for fun driving than the 6 cyl supra from what i am reading, incredibly light and its engine in my opinion is a masterpiece , 1.8 4 cyl turbo with 300hp, i havent driven the alpine but the megane which has the same engine is sweet.
Sadly it is not an option for me, the alpine and the cayman for me are more like expensive toys. Aside from a practical dd ( suzuki swift ) i can afford a second car that can seat 4 or at least 3 people that has performance. If the supra was 2+2 i would get one , preferably the 6 cyl, but at the moment that is the reason why i am having high hopes for the next 86 , the current one while a good car actually left me dissapointed because sometimes you want to put your foot down on a sports car and go fast.
From the 86 i was expecting a similar experience similar to s13-s14 silvia (the s13 had a 1.8 turbo that blew my mind and the s14 had a 2 liter turbo) and i am sorry i didn't get that because i really wanted to like this car more.
 

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yeap , the alpine may be actually better for fun driving than the 6 cyl supra from what i am reading, incredibly light and its engine in my opinion is a masterpiece , 1.8 4 cyl turbo with 300hp, i havent driven the alpine but the megane which has the same engine is sweet.
Sadly it is not an option for me, the alpine and the cayman for me are more like expensive toys. Aside from a practical dd ( suzuki swift ) i can afford a second car that can seat 4 or at least 3 people that has performance. If the supra was 2+2 i would get one , preferably the 6 cyl, but at the moment that is the reason why i am having high hopes for the next 86 , the current one while a good car actually left me dissapointed because sometimes you want to put your foot down on a sports car and go fast.
From the 86 i was expecting a similar experience similar to s13-s14 silvia (the s13 had a 1.8 turbo that blew my mind and the s14 had a 2 liter turbo) and i am sorry i didn't get that because i really wanted to like this car more.
I did drive regular A110 and new A110S :) while A110 bodyrolls 2much for my liking, like Mx5, and I dislike this type of handling characteristics, the A110s is almost perfect with roll minimalized A LOT. The car is incredibly glued to the road, have to really throw it to go sideways, on semislicks its for sure super capable on track. Also, Cayman is like SUV in terms os storage compared to Alpine. And thats why Im not gettin one :D I want more of that drifty nature and useability :)
I value more the sharp, raw nature of 86. The fact its not that fast (altho mine does 0-60 in around 5.7s) is what makes it fun - u have to rev it hiiiiigh for speed, you can actually enjoy the process coz you are not gaining speed so quickly. Maybe it will sound weird but that disappointed me about Supra - its few seconds and its already 150kph. I did drive Supra on country roads for few hundred kms, same roads I drive home with my 86. I really stepped on it, sometimes a bit too reckless... and I arrived home within 5min of my 86. Was I having more fun? Unfortunately not, I had to brake a lot more, coz getting to 180 is relatively easy, its 2x the speed limit already (ye ye I know, I shouldnt but... :D ) and it still wanted to go... And thats the problem, there is almost no place to use its performance on twisties, there is just the certain level you get to and then it becomes too fast and too dangerous. I totally get ppl buying Mustang GT's, M2's etc, I just personally got a bit frustrated with all this power whispering under my foot I couldnt use. Yes I do track days but lets be honest, 95% of driving I do is public road. Thats why I hoped next 86 will remain pure, non super fast, momentum based sportscar. And thats why I'm looking at 2.0 Supra, coz its lighter and has bit less power = more full throttle mode before getting into BIIIG trouble. Also Supra is quite well isolated, it doesnt feel you drive 160 or more, while 86 is the opposite, 80 feels like SPEEEED. I really enjoyed Supra, and I think its a great car, easily 8.5/10 atm, just needs few finishing touches. Still if I wanted a sports car around 400hp - the Supra is the one 2 have. Or new N/A Cayman GTS ;) But I realized I dont get to use its performance to the fullest + ammount of people that wanna race, even on straight road is minimal.
I did not belive it until I tryed for myself - its better to drive slow car fast, than fast car slow. So after driving a big chunk of sports cars, from MX5 and s2000 through Caymans, M2's up to Ferrari 458 and 500+ muscle cars, Im really going for moderate power, speed and lightness for the fun road car, preferably N/A :)

Uh, that went 2much in different direction :D
 
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tfoxyr

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i have a totally different view on driving haha , but i get it really.
Btw you should give a look on porsche 944 , the closest thing to an 86 , many examples in good shape exist without blowing your bank account, it is an old of course but it is excellent in every way , proper FR manual 4 cyl and very light. I think it was the last front engined car by porsche.
 

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i have a totally different view on driving haha , but i get it really.
Btw you should give a look on porsche 944 , the closest thing to an 86 , many examples in good shape exist without blowing your bank account, it is an old of course but it is excellent in every way , proper FR manual 4 cyl and very light. I think it was the last front engined car by porsche.
https://www.motor1.com/news/398391/porsche-914-revival-considered/ hmm.... :D the "idea" is there... lets see if it shall go throught drawing board ;)
I really wanna drive 2.0 Supra and new 86, gimmie now!
On the other hand that B58D tuning potential is.... so appealing :D easy 500hp...
 

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Happy with the changes they made and the addition of the 2 liter model. Cars in general are just too heavy these days. Most manufactures are concerned more so with horsepower numbers than making their cars light weight and handle well like a sports car should. The addition of the additional horsepower does make the 3.0 much more appealing at the price though and I'm sure most tuners will be happy with the lower compression and changes on the manifold.
I heard that the steering was numb on the Supra as well, but it looks like they've done some work to the steering rack so hopefully it's got more steering feel now.
 

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I did drive regular A110 and new A110S :) while A110 bodyrolls 2much for my liking, like Mx5, and I dislike this type of handling characteristics, the A110s is almost perfect with roll minimalized A LOT. The car is incredibly glued to the road, have to really throw it to go sideways, on semislicks its for sure super capable on track. Also, Cayman is like SUV in terms os storage compared to Alpine. And thats why Im not gettin one :D I want more of that drifty nature and useability :)
I value more the sharp, raw nature of 86. The fact its not that fast (altho mine does 0-60 in around 5.7s) is what makes it fun - u have to rev it hiiiiigh for speed, you can actually enjoy the process coz you are not gaining speed so quickly. Maybe it will sound weird but that disappointed me about Supra - its few seconds and its already 150kph. I did drive Supra on country roads for few hundred kms, same roads I drive home with my 86. I really stepped on it, sometimes a bit too reckless... and I arrived home within 5min of my 86. Was I having more fun? Unfortunately not, I had to brake a lot more, coz getting to 180 is relatively easy, its 2x the speed limit already (ye ye I know, I shouldnt but... :D ) and it still wanted to go... And thats the problem, there is almost no place to use its performance on twisties, there is just the certain level you get to and then it becomes too fast and too dangerous. I totally get ppl buying Mustang GT's, M2's etc, I just personally got a bit frustrated with all this power whispering under my foot I couldnt use. Yes I do track days but lets be honest, 95% of driving I do is public road. Thats why I hoped next 86 will remain pure, non super fast, momentum based sportscar. And thats why I'm looking at 2.0 Supra, coz its lighter and has bit less power = more full throttle mode before getting into BIIIG trouble. Also Supra is quite well isolated, it doesnt feel you drive 160 or more, while 86 is the opposite, 80 feels like SPEEEED. I really enjoyed Supra, and I think its a great car, easily 8.5/10 atm, just needs few finishing touches. Still if I wanted a sports car around 400hp - the Supra is the one 2 have. Or new N/A Cayman GTS ;) But I realized I dont get to use its performance to the fullest + ammount of people that wanna race, even on straight road is minimal.
I did not belive it until I tryed for myself - its better to drive slow car fast, than fast car slow. So after driving a big chunk of sports cars, from MX5 and s2000 through Caymans, M2's up to Ferrari 458 and 500+ muscle cars, Im really going for moderate power, speed and lightness for the fun road car, preferably N/A :)

Uh, that went 2much in different direction :D
lol beg to differ on the 400hp sports car, AUDI TTRS will pants them easily lol
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