Analysis, Comments & Reactions from the Web about the new Supra

Z8AKU said:

when the new B58M30 is a far superior block than the 27 year old 2JZ.

Not to mention that every fan boy and even most MKIV Supra owners are ignorant to the fact that the 2JZ-GTE motor was actually engineered by German Engineering firm Johann Krause GmbH prior to 1993.

To add insult to injury, the GETRAG now known as Magna PT's 6 speed transmission in the MKIV's was also a German transmission. The MKIV's rise to stardom can be attributed to the German engineering that went into it's power plant and drivetrain.

Toyota is still outsourcing their motors from other companies to this day and they work closely with Yamaha for their Lexus brand performance vehicles i.e. LFA, LC500, RC-F and IS-F.

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1) it's more advanced and superior as such in some ways, but it's not superior in all ways.

2) complete nonsense that I've debunked before. Whoever started that rumor on the internet is the worst...

3) the only thing German was the V160 and it was indeed amazing.

4) the only engines in recent history that have been outsourced are the FA20 and B58.

other engines have utilized Yamaha, who Toyota owns a stake in to tune performance variants generally in the form of the heads. Exceptions to this are the LFA engine, which was co-developed, and according to a TRD race engineer I spoke with the 1JZ-GTE as well.



I'm not going to get into this further (I've provided far more information on this in the past), but those are the facts.

Look, I understand your frustration better than most as I have defended this car and it's development for a long time, but "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" came to mind whilst reading your comments...

Given this announcement and Toyota's betrayal of first gen owners, I wouldn't be surprised if they release the manual version in 2022.
Toyota
Business first
Fans last

Paolo said:

Given this announcement and Toyota's betrayal of first gen owners, I wouldn't be surprised if they release the manual version in 2022.
Toyota
Business first
Fans last

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A manual, another 50hp bump, and a super nice steering wheel update!!
More like business first and customer service last! Last time I checked, they still had no fix yet for the 2020 headlight error issue?

Axix23 said:

A manual, another 50hp bump, and a super nice steering wheel update!!
More like business first and customer service last!

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Hahaha
Ahh yes that el cheapo plastic bin parts steering wheel...
Toyota HQ has you on their horizon
Upgrade coming real soon now...
Don't lose the faith supra fans.

Toyota marketing reminds me Apple
2021 Supra - The best yet..

Z8AKU said:

Yes it is a great successor to the MKIV. I get annoyed that so many have over hyped the MKIV into this iconic legend of sorts when the new B58M30 is a far superior block than the 27 year old 2JZ. Not to mention that every fan boy and even most MKIV Supra owners are ignorant to the fact that the 2JZ-GTE motor was actually engineered by German Engineering firm Johann Krause GmbH prior to 1993. To add insult to injury, the GETRAG now known as Magna PT's 6 speed transmission in the MKIV's was also a German transmission. The MKIV's rise to stardom can be attributed to the German engineering that went into it's power plant and drivetrain. Toyota is still outsourcing their motors from other companies to this day and they work closely with Yamaha for their Lexus brand performance vehicles i.e. LFA, LC500, RC-F and IS-F.

So what's changed with the Supra 27 years later? It has another German sourced motor and another German transmission and is getting ridiculed for being all from BMW although the ZF transmission in the MKV is not sourced from BMW, but rather from ZF Friedrichshafen AG. For $1,000 A MKV can be made much faster than a BPU MKIV Supra can. Not only that but the amount of money needed to make a MKIV as fast to perform as good as a MKV with stage II stock frame turbo upgrade would cost over $10,000. The MKV would only require $3,100 total to make 650whp reliably for a perfect street/track car.

Wish people would just stop with the MKV bashing and give it a rest already.

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Actually your entire post is false, it was clarified right here on this forum for you as well.

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/toyota-gr-supra-racing-concept-officially-revealed.768/page-22

The 2jzgte was designed in house by Toyota and the head designed by Yamaha. I know it made you feel good to call anyone who doesnt hold open arms for the mkv a fanboy but that doesn't make what you say true. Did you ever think you were the fanboy?

Paolo said:

Given this announcement and Toyota's betrayal of first gen owners, I wouldn't be surprised if they release the manual version in 2022.
Toyota
Business first
Fans last

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First gen owners? We're WAYYYY past that with the Supra

A70TTR said:

1) it's more advanced and superior as such in some ways, but it's not superior in all ways.

2) complete nonsense that I've debunked before. Whoever started that rumor on the internet is the worst...

3) the only thing German was the V160 and it was indeed amazing.

4) the only engines in recent history that have been outsourced are the FA20 and B58.

other engines have utilized Yamaha, who Toyota owns a stake in to tune performance variants generally in the form of the heads. Exceptions to this are the LFA engine, which was co-developed, and according to a TRD race engineer I spoke with the 1JZ-GTE as well.



I'm not going to get into this further (I've provided far more information on this in the past), but those are the facts.

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Speaking of, someone put an expensive exhaust on a 90's Toyota Century and it sounds ABSOLUTELY MENTAL

Bryster said:

Speaking of, someone put an expensive exhaust on a 90's Toyota Century and it sounds ABSOLUTELY MENTAL

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OMFG that sounds orgasmic.

FasTTurbo said:

The 2jzgte was designed in house by Toyota and the head designed by Yamaha. I know it made you feel good to call anyone who doesnt hold open arms for the mkv a fanboy but that doesn't make what you say true. Did you ever think you were the fanboy?

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Yamaha had nothing to do with the 2JZ-GTE motor development despite Yamaha and Toyota working on many joint ventures. It's a known fact that the final development of the 2JZ-GTE was outsourced to then German engineering firm, Johann A. Krause Maschinenfabrik GmbH which was acquired by Thyssenkrupp technologies company years later. Krause engineering firm co-developed and finalized the 2JZ-GTE for refinement to meet production car homologation requirements set forth by the former All-Japan Grand Touring Car Championship.

The 2JZ-GTE originally powered the Toyota Aristo V (JZS147) in 1991 before becoming Toyota's flagship performance engine in the Toyota Supra RZ (JZA80) in the following year. The GETRAG 6 speed transmission in the A80 TT Toyota Supras known as the V160/161 Type 233 is also German and built to Toyota's specifications. The LuK flywheel in the A80 MKIV Supra as well as the Recaro seats from 1995+ J-Spec RZ-Models are also German. If I were to dissect the entire A80 Supra you would be surprised how much German technology and parts are actually in it.

You can search Google all you want for the facts, yet most of the early brochures and press articles from the early 90's regarding A80 MKIV Supra have become scarce relics. Why? When the A80 MKIV was released in 1993 no one thought it would become what it has today, so why would anyone bother saving any brochures, ads and press related articles on yet another foreign sports car that at the time seemed like just another average sports car from Toyota. I was 23 in 1993 and remember the year very well, most people knew nothing about the A80 Toyota Supra. Some of us knew about the the Supra/Celica but they were subpar cars compared to the domestic muscle cars at that time. The average car person here in the states at that time in 1993 were after the Corvettes, Mustangs, Camaro, Porsche and classic muscle cars. It wasn't until the late 90's when the Japanese car culture really started to take hold in New York and LA from tuner shops modifying Japanese turbo cars to power levels above and beyond the exotics at that time and eventually spread throughout the states. Of course 2001 would mark the year that the A80 Toyota Supra got it's 5 minutes of fame on the big screen and the hype actually began. Prior to the Fast and the Furious no one gave two shits about a Toyota Supra. The A70, A60 Supras were cheap and not really sought after cars back then.

Lastly, I could care less if people hold resentments or disregard for the MKV Supra, I'm simply annoyed at the stupid juvenile comments about it being sourced from BMW. It's tiring and old.

Z8AKU said:

Yamaha had nothing to do with the 2JZ-GTE motor development despite Yamaha and Toyota working on many joint ventures. It's a known fact that the final development of the 2JZ-GTE was outsourced to then German engineering firm, Johann A. Krause Maschinenfabrik GmbH which was acquired by Thyssenkrupp technologies company years later. Krause engineering firm co-developed and finalized the 2JZ-GTE for refinement to meet production car homologation requirements set forth by the former All-Japan Grand Touring Car Championship.

The 2JZ-GTE originally powered the Toyota Aristo V (JZS147) in 1991 before becoming Toyota's flagship performance engine in the Toyota Supra RZ (JZA80) in the following year. The GETRAG 6 speed transmission in the A80 TT Toyota Supras known as the V160/161 Type 233 is also German and built to Toyota's specifications. The LuK flywheel in the A80 MKIV Supra as well as the Recaro seats from 1995+ J-Spec RZ-Models are also German. If I were to dissect the entire A80 Supra you would be surprised how much German technology and parts are actually in it.

You can search Google all you want for the facts, yet most of the early brochures and press articles from the early 90's regarding A80 MKIV Supra have become scarce relics. Why? When the A80 MKIV was released in 1993 no one thought it would become what it has today, so why would anyone bother saving any brochures, ads and press related articles on yet another foreign sports car that at the time seemed like just another average sports car from Toyota. I was 23 in 1993 and remember the year very well, most people knew nothing about the A80 Toyota Supra. Some of us knew about the the Supra/Celica but they were subpar cars compared to the domestic muscle cars at that time. The average car person here in the states at that time in 1993 were after the Corvettes, Mustangs, Camaro, Porsche and classic muscle cars. It wasn't until the late 90's when the Japanese car culture really started to take hold in New York and LA from tuner shops modifying Japanese turbo cars to power levels above and beyond the exotics at that time and eventually spread throughout the states. Of course 2001 would mark the year that the A80 Toyota Supra got it's 5 minutes of fame on the big screen and the hype actually began. Prior to the Fast and the Furious no one gave two shits about a Toyota Supra. The A70, A60 Supras were cheap and not really sought after cars back then.

Lastly, I could care less if people hold resentments or disregard for the MKV Supra, I'm simply annoyed at the stupid juvenile comments about it being sourced from BMW. It's tiring and old.

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You doubled down on your false information. Just stop its moronic at best.

Z8AKU said:

Yamaha had nothing to do with the 2JZ-GTE motor development despite Yamaha and Toyota working on many joint ventures. It's a known fact that the final development of the 2JZ-GTE was outsourced to then German engineering firm, Johann A. Krause Maschinenfabrik GmbH which was acquired by Thyssenkrupp technologies company years later. Krause engineering firm co-developed and finalized the 2JZ-GTE for refinement to meet production car homologation requirements set forth by the former All-Japan Grand Touring Car Championship.

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When you google that, it returns the same sentence "Final development of the 2JZ-GTE was outsourced to German engineering firm Johann A. Krause Maschinenfabrik GmbH for refinement to meet production car homologation requirements set forth by the former All-Japan Grand Touring Car Championship." over and over again with no origins of source or evidence.

Someone teach this guy in the DMs. Dont need to read through this explanation again. Its gonna be a waste of time and space for who ever decides to engage with the guy.

A70TTR said:

1) it's more advanced and superior as such in some ways, but it's not superior in all ways.

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FALSE! The B58M30I 3.0 i6 has only been out a few short years and has made leaps and bounds over what took a 2JZ-GTE a decade to achieve after it's public release in 1993. 27 years of technological advancement and engineering development that surpasses the 2JZ-GTE with ease. It's like comparing a rotary phone to the latest iPhone and claiming that the rotary phone still has some relevant qualities that make it superior to an iPhone.

Papadakis Racing has made over 1,000hp on a fortified rods and piston yet stock bottom end B58M30I, several tuners have tuned the B58M30I to over 900hp on stock block holding just fine still, and the MKV Supra has gone 9's in the 1/4 mile on stock block and transmission and did so in less than 4 months of it's public release. What were the 1993 Supras running back in 1993? 13's? Even 5 years later in 1998 I think they were just barely kissing high 11's if I recall correctly.

A70TTR said:

2) complete nonsense that I've debunked before. Whoever started that rumor on the internet is the worst...

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I read some of the articles published in 1993 about the tech that went into the A80 Supra which were publicized in magazines and there was no internet for any of us to post and share the information. It was all word of mouth at that time. I assure you the information I shared isn't rumor. Who would just arbitrarily make up such a rumor about another company co-developing a Toyota motor? What would be to gain from such shenanigans?

A70TTR said:

3) the only thing German was the V160 and it was indeed amazing.

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FALSE! The 2JZ-GTE was co-developed and engineered by Johann Krause a German Engineering firm back in 1991 originally for the Toyota Aristo V (JZS147) which was later sourced for the 1993 MKIV TT A80 Supra. The GETRAG 6 speed transmission in the A80 TT Toyota Supras known as the V160/161 Type 233 is also German and built to Toyota's specifications. The LuK flywheel in the A80 MKIV Supra as well as the Recaro seats from 1995+ J-Spec RZ-Models are also all German.

A70TTR said:

4) the only engines in recent history that have been outsourced are the FA20 and B58.

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What's considered recent? 2 years? 5 years or even 10? Your claim here is also false. Aside from the aforementioned motors you listed there is also the Lexus LFA's 1LR-GUE, and the 2UR-GSE in the IS-F, RC-F and LC500 that are all sourced from Yamaha. In fact, Yamaha's Music company tuned the sounds of these motors along with the exhaust notes. If we go back further though, Yamaha designed and engineered the 3M 2.0L i6 which is the origins of all JZ series Toyota motors. Continuing on with the 4A-GE, 2ZZ-GE, 3S-GTE, 1JZ-GTE and a few others.

. . .

I cant even argue with you. Your information is so incorrect it's baffling.