CarGuy11
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^^^Because there was tons of talk about 86 in this thread.
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Islindur
Well-Known Member
In depth review Supra 2.0 vs 86 for me pls, mostly in terms of fun to drive relative to power 200 hp vs 255. Also how driftable is Supra with lower power and 8ZF, since this is my main concern for 2.0
Dannyvandelft
Well-Known Member
Maybe it's just me, but I don't think they compare at all. The only thing they have in common is rear wheel drive.
The 86 is a cheaply made entry level "sports" car, if it even still falls under that category by today's standards, with a very cheap interior.
The 2.0 Supra is 95% of a 3.0 and with a few boxes ticked, a Premium, with a smaller engine. Same luxury inside, same equipment, same everything. It even looks the same on the outside. The 86 takes 6,5 seconds to 60 and that's dumping the clutch and thrashing the gearbox. So 7 seconds is closer to reality. The Supra will do it on 5 seconds every time you put your foot down, effortless.
In my opinion, if you want to compare the Supra 2.0 to anything, compare it to an Audi TT. Same luxury, same 2 liter turbo layout, same price range, auto/DSG, etc.
The 86 is a cheaply made entry level "sports" car, if it even still falls under that category by today's standards, with a very cheap interior.
The 2.0 Supra is 95% of a 3.0 and with a few boxes ticked, a Premium, with a smaller engine. Same luxury inside, same equipment, same everything. It even looks the same on the outside. The 86 takes 6,5 seconds to 60 and that's dumping the clutch and thrashing the gearbox. So 7 seconds is closer to reality. The Supra will do it on 5 seconds every time you put your foot down, effortless.
In my opinion, if you want to compare the Supra 2.0 to anything, compare it to an Audi TT. Same luxury, same 2 liter turbo layout, same price range, auto/DSG, etc.
Axix23
Well-Known Member
I am going to have to agree with DannyV on this one. Supra 2.0 and 86 arenāt even in the same category...... 86 and a Honda Civic SI would be a lot more comparable. Pointless in comparing the two!
The 86 reminds me of the Honda Civic SI for the Toyota...
Islindur
Well-Known Member
How is Civic comparable? Coz of the same "speed"? How do I drift Civic? My 86 does 0-60 in 5.7 so its not THAT far off. And I'm not after 0-60 anyway. Reving and trashing the engine/gearbox is what makes it fun too. Just like S2000. I'm looking for a fun sports car at core.
So 3.0 Supra was fun to drive for me, esp on twisties, just a bit less balanced and not as sharp as 86 but still very fun, thats why I'm looking at lighter option. I'd add more hardcore suspension day1 for the track since stock one, while being GREAT for daily, is too soft for me and rolls too much.
I dont care at all about luxuries. Only thing that matters inside for me is driving position, how low and well is placed the seat comapred to steering wheel and how is the visibility. Rest is irrelevant.
TT? For sure I'm gonna cross shop FWD "sporty" Audi with a true sports car like Supra or Cayman, cmon....
So yeah, I'm actually looking forward for 86 vs 2.0 comparo. It may be 2021 GT86, new GR86 or Supra for me in next ~2years.
So 3.0 Supra was fun to drive for me, esp on twisties, just a bit less balanced and not as sharp as 86 but still very fun, thats why I'm looking at lighter option. I'd add more hardcore suspension day1 for the track since stock one, while being GREAT for daily, is too soft for me and rolls too much.
I dont care at all about luxuries. Only thing that matters inside for me is driving position, how low and well is placed the seat comapred to steering wheel and how is the visibility. Rest is irrelevant.
TT? For sure I'm gonna cross shop FWD "sporty" Audi with a true sports car like Supra or Cayman, cmon....
So yeah, I'm actually looking forward for 86 vs 2.0 comparo. It may be 2021 GT86, new GR86 or Supra for me in next ~2years.
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Axix23
Well-Known Member
Bc both kinds of people in the market that drive a Civic SI and 86 are guys in their early 20ās... I guess CarGuy11 and you are the odd balls that like the 86.... It just like my RSX, majority of people that message me about it are kids from 17-23ish... Grown ups donāt drive those kinda cars.....
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Kiwi Greg
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Having had two 86s & going from one to the 3.0 both with suspension & wheel - tire upgrades, but the 3.0 has upgraded springs as well
The weight difference & chassis balance is noticeable
With the 86 you would have to be going stupid fast into a corner to get into trouble & even then it would try really hard to not let you down
Way more chuckable & rewarding to drive through the twisty canyon roads we have here than the 3.0
The 3.0 wins with over twice power & better fuel economy combined with all the refinements & creature comforts as you would expect for twice the price here.
The 2.0 will narrow that gap as far as I'm concerned, the 86 is more practical if thats a thing when choosing a sports car, for me it would be a close run thing, how ever I most likely will never be able to compare them myself as I doubt the 2.0 will make it here
The next model 86 could be interesting indeed.
The weight difference & chassis balance is noticeable
With the 86 you would have to be going stupid fast into a corner to get into trouble & even then it would try really hard to not let you down
Way more chuckable & rewarding to drive through the twisty canyon roads we have here than the 3.0
The 3.0 wins with over twice power & better fuel economy combined with all the refinements & creature comforts as you would expect for twice the price here.
The 2.0 will narrow that gap as far as I'm concerned, the 86 is more practical if thats a thing when choosing a sports car, for me it would be a close run thing, how ever I most likely will never be able to compare them myself as I doubt the 2.0 will make it here
The next model 86 could be interesting indeed.
ZDan
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My impression at ft86club.com is there are a *lot* of middle-aged and older FT86 owners, and surprisingly few younger owners. I'm 52 for whatever that's worth...
I don't think the Civic Si appeals to the same crowd, being wrong-wheel-drive and all...
kmbkk
Active Member
I agree with you. Iām 48 and have owned mine for 8 years. I donāt see a direct comparison with an SI either. Iām looking forward to 86/2.0 comparisons as well. Iāve been on the fence with getting a ā20 Supra and may just wait to get more details on the 2.0.
Islindur
Well-Known Member
For now it appears 2.0 is just as fun on the backroads as the 3.0, since all the power (380whp) is unusable on the road so you can trash the engine more. And they say the power is adequate, 0-60 in 4.9 and it doesnt feel slow. More balanced, bit better handling, lighter feel too (100kg less!). Also better fuel economy. I'd assume 0-124 in around 21s, 1/4 around 13.5s. With a tune (and 300hp from this engine with just a tune is normal) it may go under 20s and 13s. So fast enough for daily usage
On the other hand they say Brembo brakes would make the car better, there is more turbolag, engine note is worse than 6cyl, gearbox could have a bit shorter ratios, esp 3rd as its carried over straight from the 6cyl and some may complain on less tech in the interior (manual seats, no heat, no wireless phone charger).
Some reviewers prefered the 2.0 to the 3.0 calling it most fun to drive. The others prefered more power and premium package with adaptive dampers and prefered 3.0.
All in all it seems like a very interesting proposition, expect ~41k$.
Islindur
Well-Known Member
The laptimes on this are actually interesting.
Supra 2021 3.0: 1:03:43
Supra 2.0: 1:05:35 -----------> 1.92s slower than 3.0
86 TRD: 1:08:51---------------> 3.16s slower than 2.0, 5.08s slower than 3.0
Yes, the track is short and technical, big power does not dominate, the handling and balance are more important. So despite having around 180-200hp less at the crank (since 21' dyno around 382 at the wheels which gives around 450hp at the crank), not having adaptive suspension (so no stiffer setting for the track), having no e-diff and smaller non-Brembo brakes the gap is not even 2seconds. Just changing the tires to sth like M CUP2 will give a time within tenths of 3.0 upgreaded model, ofc on a small technical track. Yea, of course we can put them on 3.0 and the gap will again be wider, but just a thought how to narrow it in a simple way.
Yes, on small track is not "small" difference, and higher speed track would wider it further, but I think the 2.0 did really well actually having much less power and less "features".. The 86 TRD got upgreaded Sachs dampers with springs, Brembo brakes and Pilot Sport 4 tires and yet the gap is almost 3.2s compared to 2.0 but that is actually quite big already. And in my opinion 86 esp with TRD handling goodies is better balanced and sharper than Supra.
I expected 2.0 to be at least 3s slower, and its not. Its almost as fast as Bullit Mustang and the power difference is also huge there.
I'm kinda impressed, with a bit of suspension tuning and some power mods the 2.0 with its ligher weight seems quite promising.
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