How to Improve OE Sub Bass Quality and Eliminate Vibrations

OP
OP
tadda

tadda

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tom
Joined
Dec 14, 2019
Threads
24
Messages
1,251
Reaction score
2,157
Location
Arizona
Car(s)
2023 C8 Corvette Z51 2LT Coupe
Vehicle Showcase
1
If you are doing the doors, I’d grab a few feet of decent CLD as the inner skin could use some help. I plan to have thinsulate and CLD in the doors and everything behind the seats within reason. If I’m not happy, I will have enough to do the roof in both and CLD on the floor. For obvious reasons I’m not doing them this round.

Know that you will need to pull a lot harder than you think compared to the rest of the clips to free up the clip by the door lock pin up top. Saving it for last has worked for me, but the amount of force required was unnerving the first time I did. The rest of the gotchas are covered vaguely enough in the Bavsound video.

Yes, I have a few rolls of CLD that I just used for lining the cargo floor and I think I have enough left for the doors...I really like working with the Noico for outer layer..sticks very well and easy to cut up.....
Sponsored

 

2k20HTownMKV

Well-Known Member
First Name
Joe
Joined
Nov 1, 2019
Threads
5
Messages
331
Reaction score
249
Location
Houston
Car(s)
2020 Supra; 2017 Lexus RX 350 F sport; 2013 Honda Accord (daily)
Vehicle Showcase
1
@tadda @JasonO i still have some Dynamat at home. Is the use of Noico just due to its price difference vs Dynamat or is there something better that Noico has? Dont mind going to buy some Noico just figured it would use whatever i have left.
 
OP
OP
tadda

tadda

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tom
Joined
Dec 14, 2019
Threads
24
Messages
1,251
Reaction score
2,157
Location
Arizona
Car(s)
2023 C8 Corvette Z51 2LT Coupe
Vehicle Showcase
1
@tadda @JasonO i still have some Dynamat at home. Is the use of Noico just due to its price difference vs Dynamat or is there something better that Noico has? Dont mind going to buy some Noico just figured it would use whatever i have left.
Noico is typically applied over thin layered (CLD) i.e dynamat for additional damping and noise suppression...

With the sub improvement project I used the Noico foam backed adhesive to suppress / isolate noise and fill gaps...I also used dynamat to cover the floor of the rear trunk space....

I intend on using both dynamat and Noico (as an overlay) for the doors...

Here is what the door space looks like covering the mid speaker..yikes!

door speaker pic 3.png
 

2k20HTownMKV

Well-Known Member
First Name
Joe
Joined
Nov 1, 2019
Threads
5
Messages
331
Reaction score
249
Location
Houston
Car(s)
2020 Supra; 2017 Lexus RX 350 F sport; 2013 Honda Accord (daily)
Vehicle Showcase
1
Noico is typically applied over thin layered (CLD) i.e dynamat for additional damping and noise suppression...

With the sub improvement project I used the Noico foam backed adhesive to suppress / isolate noise and fill gaps...I also used dynamat to cover the floor of the rear trunk space....

I intend on using both dynamat and Noico (as an overlay) for the doors...
Sounds good i will check with just some dynamat first and then if i need to improve the layers i will go buy some Noico. I was actually going to go back over the sub project and where the exhaust ports were i was going to line the metal with Dynamat as well, but may not be needed or a bit overkill
 
OP
OP
tadda

tadda

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tom
Joined
Dec 14, 2019
Threads
24
Messages
1,251
Reaction score
2,157
Location
Arizona
Car(s)
2023 C8 Corvette Z51 2LT Coupe
Vehicle Showcase
1
Sounds good i will check with just some dynamat first and then if i need to improve the layers i will go buy some Noico. I was actually going to go back over the sub project and where the exhaust ports were i was going to line the metal with Dynamat as well, but may not be needed or a bit overkill
I actually covered the wall behind the narrow rear panel with the dynamat I had as well...figured it couldn't hurt and probably actually helped a bit...

Also, seriously consider adding some adhesive foam backed strips (~ 0.25" thick and doesn't have to be Noico) to the gaps I mention earlier where I found that exhaust port energy was escaping from under the long narrow rear panel (which as I show in a few pics below) causing the rear floor panel cover to vibrate
 

2k20HTownMKV

Well-Known Member
First Name
Joe
Joined
Nov 1, 2019
Threads
5
Messages
331
Reaction score
249
Location
Houston
Car(s)
2020 Supra; 2017 Lexus RX 350 F sport; 2013 Honda Accord (daily)
Vehicle Showcase
1
I actually covered the wall behind the narrow rear panel with the dynamat I had as well...figured it couldn't hurt and probably actually help...
Ahh ok i put dynamat on the panel that i made the exhaust ports on as the original material didn't seem as sturdy. Seems to be a lot of options of dampening material now as i was just checking amazon so may try some new options once i use up the old stock
 

2k20HTownMKV

Well-Known Member
First Name
Joe
Joined
Nov 1, 2019
Threads
5
Messages
331
Reaction score
249
Location
Houston
Car(s)
2020 Supra; 2017 Lexus RX 350 F sport; 2013 Honda Accord (daily)
Vehicle Showcase
1
Noico is typically applied over thin layered (CLD) i.e dynamat for additional damping and noise suppression...

With the sub improvement project I used the Noico foam backed adhesive to suppress / isolate noise and fill gaps...I also used dynamat to cover the floor of the rear trunk space....

I intend on using both dynamat and Noico (as an overlay) for the doors...

Here is what the door space looks like covering the mid speaker..yikes!

door speaker pic 3.png
Which video is this? i would love to see this in more detail as it would allow me to figure out where to put material
 

JasonO

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jason
Joined
Oct 30, 2019
Threads
4
Messages
453
Reaction score
559
Location
Lake Charles, LA
Car(s)
Supra LE
@tadda @JasonO i still have some Dynamat at home. Is the use of Noico just due to its price difference vs Dynamat or is there something better that Noico has? Dont mind going to buy some Noico just figured it would use whatever i have left.
Noico has several products. They make a CLD similar to Dynamat. Some CLD is considerably better than others. Diymobileaudio has a rather dated CLD testing that they are about to update. Some CLD was next to useless even with full coverage, while some performed stellar with 25% coverage. Dynamat tested reasonably well, so full coverage would not be required. Noico wasn’t tested then but will this time. Professionals seem not to like it, but that can be a biased input. I went with KnuKonceptz as they had one that tested very well last time and was priced reasonable. Being tested and able to roll with minimal coverage is a huge plus for me as it 100% coverage on a car could be 100lbs depending on the CLD.

CLD dampens resonance from panels. Insulation attenuates the volume. If you want to approach true sound proofing, you have to gut the entire car, install CLD, decoupling, MLV and the another decoupling later. It will also add 200 lbs or more to the car if done right.
 

JasonO

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jason
Joined
Oct 30, 2019
Threads
4
Messages
453
Reaction score
559
Location
Lake Charles, LA
Car(s)
Supra LE
Noico is typically applied over thin layered (CLD) i.e dynamat for additional damping and noise suppression...

With the sub improvement project I used the Noico foam backed adhesive to suppress / isolate noise and fill gaps...I also used dynamat to cover the floor of the rear trunk space....

I intend on using both dynamat and Noico (as an overlay) for the doors...

Here is what the door space looks like covering the mid speaker..yikes!

door speaker pic 3.png
The speakers do sit flush against the waveguide as they have a foam seat, so it could be much worse. It stops it from being a complete echo chamber.

With that said, I have applied some CLD there for stiffness and will fill the door with Thinsulate.
 
OP
OP
tadda

tadda

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tom
Joined
Dec 14, 2019
Threads
24
Messages
1,251
Reaction score
2,157
Location
Arizona
Car(s)
2023 C8 Corvette Z51 2LT Coupe
Vehicle Showcase
1
The speakers do sit flush against the waveguide as they have a foam seat, so it could be much worse. It stops it from being a complete echo chamber.

With that said, I have applied some CLD there for stiffness and will fill the door with Thinsulate.
Yeah, the door vibrations around that mid area are terrible! I plan on applying both CLD and foam around that entire area as I've found (as you probably have) that the plastic area around the mids, particularly that thin wall, vibrates like hell during lower midrange passages...

door speaker pic.jpg
 
Last edited:

JasonO

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jason
Joined
Oct 30, 2019
Threads
4
Messages
453
Reaction score
559
Location
Lake Charles, LA
Car(s)
Supra LE
Well @tadda you wound up helping me. The box for my 10” was on the small side, and more box volume would be a plus. I was able to use the additional port space / box for porting my 10” sub box into it, making a bigger sealed box. It wasn’t fun, but I was able to reinforce and seal the two chambers so it didn’t rattle and leak with 500 watts being dumped into it.

I’ve been poaching parts off Craigslist cheap as oil dried up and half of South Louisiana is getting rid of their toys cheap. My system is totally different from before. I don’t want to derail the thread so I’ll go into what fits into your gig of minimal investment.

The passive crossovers helped in the doors along with fading out the rears. If on factory amp, I’d probably kill the center channel as well. I have an aftermarket amp driving my doors and while it is worthwhile alone, adding a cheap DSP for time alignment would be highly recommended.

Time alignment is where it is at. The biggest clarity improvement came from that. Like magic. Vocals and mid bass always got lost in the mix for me in the Supra. I’m deaf in one ear, so this always was a serious issue in vehicles and it went away entirely. I’m not an entirely stupid engineer so I understand the how and why very well, but the improvement was still damn near like it was voodoo when I experienced it. This is on factory door speakers time aligned with my aftermarket sub deck. This isn’t in your cheap fix/stock as possible grouping, but it can be done for minimal investment if done smartly and the subs are ignored.
 
OP
OP
tadda

tadda

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tom
Joined
Dec 14, 2019
Threads
24
Messages
1,251
Reaction score
2,157
Location
Arizona
Car(s)
2023 C8 Corvette Z51 2LT Coupe
Vehicle Showcase
1
Good stuff @JasonO and thanks again for all your insights!

I'm thinking we should start another thread soon on how to improve the door speaker sound quality, which from my perspective, is going to simply come down to adding insulation and dampening materials to specific areas, whereas once again I'm finding that the harmon kardon mids and tweeters are actually pretty decent as well, and isolating them should greatly improve their overall clarity and performance...And I agree, as your finding, that perhaps adding sharper crossovers will add to overall clarity...The door speakers are the primaries compared to the rear sides and centers which are greatly attenuated and really don't add much...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The primary focus of this thread on the Subwoofers was really not because I didn't want to spend a lot of money on improving the quality of our audio system, but more-so because I quickly recognized (through some thoughtful investigation) that the Supra's audio system, specifically the Harmon Kardon speakers, are actually quite good, and that through some simple design improvements could sound far better...Clearly Toyota's priority wasn't on the audio system and had they taken the design just a few steps further, as I did, I think most people wouldn't have any complaints with it either...

For anyone considering installing direct replacement speakers as a knee-jerk reaction to improving sound distortions, vibrations, and rattles, these improvements outlined in this thread should be seriously considered first or you'll just be wasting money on a marginal improvement made over the OE system...
 
Last edited:

JasonO

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jason
Joined
Oct 30, 2019
Threads
4
Messages
453
Reaction score
559
Location
Lake Charles, LA
Car(s)
Supra LE
Good stuff @JasonO and thanks again for all your insights!

I'm thinking we should start another thread soon on how to improve the door speaker sound quality, which from my perspective, is going to simply come down to adding insulation and dampening materials to specific areas, whereas once again I'm finding that the harmon kardon mids and tweeters are actually pretty decent as well, and isolating them should greatly improve their overall clarity and performance...And I agree, as your finding, that perhaps adding sharper crossovers will add to overall clarity...The door speakers are the primaries compared to the rear sides and centers which are greatly attenuated and really don't add much...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The primary focus of this thread on the Subwoofers was really not because I didn't want to spend a lot of money on improving the quality of our audio system, but more-so because I quickly recognized (through some thoughtful investigation) that the Supra's audio system, specifically the Harmon Kardon speakers, are actually quite good, and that through some simple design improvements could sound far better...Clearly Toyota's priority wasn't on the audio system and had they taken the design just a few steps further, as I did, I think most people wouldn't have any complaints with it either...

For anyone considering installing direct replacement speakers as a knee-jerk reaction to improving sound distortions, vibrations, and rattles, these improvements outlined in this thread should be seriously considered first or you'll just be wasting money on a marginal improvement made over the OE system...
I couldn’t agree more. The subwoofer mod is cheap and easy enough and sound materials and crossovers would likely be used in an entirely aftermarket install so there is no losses if it doesn’t work out.

The door speakers with minimal work sound good and with a bit more can sound downright great.
 

supradupra

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2019
Threads
4
Messages
136
Reaction score
113
Location
pa
Car(s)
2020 supra (soon)
i wonder how much labor a stereo shop would charge if i printed out your install and asked them to do it......and perhaps dynomat and seal some stuff while they are in there.....like what ball park should something like this be from a shop?
Sponsored

 
 




Top