👣 Official: Toyota Announces Manual Transmission Supra!
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tfoxyr
Well-Known Member
I think 2027 will be the last MY for the current car , after that maybe a 6th gen will happen or a facelift? We have along time ahead of us till then though so things could change.
MA617M
Well-Known Member
Tada said this gen will be the last Supra, as it will be the last petrol-powered car, and a Supra must be petrol powered.
Furthermore, I have 3x manual Supras (all cars, C63 aside, have been MT) and have the A90.
Funnily - I don't miss a manual in it at all. The ZF8 works really well and sometimes.... how do I explain this....
I am approaching a corner and begin to panic a little as I haven't downshifted/clutched in.... my brain says I should do this.
This is more to do with the feel of the A90 - I had never ever done this in my C63 or older Mercedes (AT)
In fact, it's the first AT car I've ever felt this in. It's quite bizzare.
I guess my point is - there is a surprising amount of tactile feel and engagement in the current A90 - and that's coming from 450whp A60 MT, 400whp A70 MT and 550whp A80 6MT owner
Furthermore, I have 3x manual Supras (all cars, C63 aside, have been MT) and have the A90.
Funnily - I don't miss a manual in it at all. The ZF8 works really well and sometimes.... how do I explain this....
I am approaching a corner and begin to panic a little as I haven't downshifted/clutched in.... my brain says I should do this.
This is more to do with the feel of the A90 - I had never ever done this in my C63 or older Mercedes (AT)
In fact, it's the first AT car I've ever felt this in. It's quite bizzare.
I guess my point is - there is a surprising amount of tactile feel and engagement in the current A90 - and that's coming from 450whp A60 MT, 400whp A70 MT and 550whp A80 6MT owner
KahnBB6
Well-Known Member
My thoughts on that comment by Tada-san from whatever interview it's from:
If he really said that... I'm sorry but that's just asinine. An excuse for Toyota not to try hard once the A90 ends production to make an A100 with new technology.
Look. I dislike boring, uninteresting self-drive EV's (and crossovers) but I am in NO way opposed to a future solid state battery powered EV A100 Supra designed to be *driven* like the current and previous Supras. Would that be different without an I-6 petrol turbo engine up front? Yes. *Could* it actually be designed in such a way to be an amazing Supra? I feel it could be... so long as it isn't a huge self-driving turdmobile that has zero appeal. With the right approach (ie: pretty much just like the current Supra's dynamics, style and ethos... only electric) it could be a great future evolution.
We're several years off from a next-gen A100. I love previous Supras, love the traditional I-6 gas turbo engines and yes, the manual gearboxes they're famously bolted to.
But for Toyota to bring this beloved sportscar back after taking way too long to get around to it again only to face the regulatory and market constraints it had to withstand to get made at all (which could have been avoided if Toyota hadn't given up on a fifth generation after MY2002 in Japan) only to say "we waited a REALLY long time to get our act together but here it is... oh but we'll never make another "Supra" again because we can't see the spirit of this famous car evolving years from now into yet another iteration that may not run on gasoline..."
Utter bollocks.
Right now the technology isn't quite there yet but it probably will be by the time the A90 ends production.
I thoroughly love the 2JZ-GTE sequential engine with stick shift. 1JZ's are awesome too. Even the 7M-GTE with all its flaws that need aftermarket correction is a special engine. The B58C and upcoming B58D are excellent performance engines as well and all of these Supra engines sound amazing.
The Supra, like any great iconic sports car or muscle car that people love, isn't just about the gas engine alone. The vehicle is an entire experience to drive.
And once newer technology matures a bit more and gets production ready the Supra model line should not die simply because it may not necessarily be able to be petrol powered in the future.
I get it that Toyota corporate speak is famously polite about neither confirming or denying but come on... after a near 20 year hiatus I really don't care what technical or regulatory hurdles a 6th generation may have to jump through.
Toyota needs to believe in their star sportscar's future far more than Tada-san's comment suggests.
I am thoroughly enjoying what we're getting in the A90 generation but it should not end there.
*(And whenever the Supra nameplate has to confront a new generation with electrification in mind I will of course not be expecting a traditional manual transmission. That's only a desire I have for the current gas-turbo non-hybrid A90 generation Supra).
This is very interesting! Thank you for relaying your impression about how the ZF8 feels!Furthermore, I have 3x manual Supras (all cars, C63 aside, have been MT) and have the A90.
Funnily - I don't miss a manual in it at all. The ZF8 works really well and sometimes.... how do I explain this....
I am approaching a corner and begin to panic a little as I haven't downshifted/clutched in.... my brain says I should do this.
This is more to do with the feel of the A90 - I had never ever done this in my C63 or older Mercedes (AT)
In fact, it's the first AT car I've ever felt this in. It's quite bizzare.
I guess my point is - there is a surprising amount of tactile feel and engagement in the current A90 - and that's coming from 450whp A60 MT, 400whp A70 MT and 550whp A80 6MT owner
I'm afraid my mind will not be changed on wanting a manual in the A90 since it's well known the barriers to making it happen in such a special sportscar are merely political/corporate and not of a purely technical nature... but I continue to be impressed by what I hear about the Supra's ZF8. I still would buy any manual car over it (unless it does get one) because for now I prefer to enjoy manual cars before they truly are all gone but it actually does sound like the traditional complaints about automatics have been addressed to a large degree.
Since the nuance seems to all be in the tuning/programming in the ECU that is what interests me next... to see what tunes become available that can custom tailor the ZF8's behavior to suit an individual driver rather than ALL potential buyers. With a manual you just execute your own style all the time but ECU reprogramming for a custom set of parameters or even several custom coded shifting modes is an intriguing thought.
Or perhaps the Sport mode's full manual shifting is enough in your opinion?
I'm very used to DD'ing with an R154 trans with a very smooth and easy to use OS Giken twin disc clutch if that gives any perspective of where I'm coming from. I've driven many automatic cars both slow and fast but have been impressed with very few of them.
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MA617M
Well-Known Member
An EV sportscar will happen, I just took the context as it being called something other than Supra...
In terms of the ZF8.... I drive the car in sport 100% of the time - however, in my sport config I have the trans set to normal (sport holds 4th at 6-70km/h and it's kind of screaming for just cruising down the road).
So if I am in D, I get all the steering, dampers and engine, but with a comfy trans.
Flick over to manual, and use the paddles and away we go. I actually use them probably 80% of the time I drive the car simply because it's fun and engaging. My only little bit of tedium would be... the shift speed/aggression is proportion to throttle position. In manual mode, I'd like the angry shifts regardless of TPS. But it's a minor issue.
The whole car is also far better with VSC completely off. As TRC works by closing the throttle, in normal or traction mode, if you pull the paddle while wheelspinning, it gives a soft shift (TPS again) and feels a bit poo.
with it all off... mash throttle in first, wheelspin, pull paddle, wheelspin continues into second, repeat into third, finally gripping up in fourth. It's a hoot!! has a lovely hooligan nature to it. It does have a bit of a sequential-lite feel (and I've driven a few - we make them at work)
The 7AT in my 2010 C63 was good.... but not good enough in a sportscar. For a German muscle car, it was perfect. But if the A90 trans was like that, it would have been a deal breaker.
Even the last ISF and RCF 8AT trans is very good.... but not a shade on the ZF8. I am very impressed with it.
FWIW, my A60 is an Albins W58, my A70 an R154 and A80 a V161.
In terms of the ZF8.... I drive the car in sport 100% of the time - however, in my sport config I have the trans set to normal (sport holds 4th at 6-70km/h and it's kind of screaming for just cruising down the road).
So if I am in D, I get all the steering, dampers and engine, but with a comfy trans.
Flick over to manual, and use the paddles and away we go. I actually use them probably 80% of the time I drive the car simply because it's fun and engaging. My only little bit of tedium would be... the shift speed/aggression is proportion to throttle position. In manual mode, I'd like the angry shifts regardless of TPS. But it's a minor issue.
The whole car is also far better with VSC completely off. As TRC works by closing the throttle, in normal or traction mode, if you pull the paddle while wheelspinning, it gives a soft shift (TPS again) and feels a bit poo.
with it all off... mash throttle in first, wheelspin, pull paddle, wheelspin continues into second, repeat into third, finally gripping up in fourth. It's a hoot!! has a lovely hooligan nature to it. It does have a bit of a sequential-lite feel (and I've driven a few - we make them at work)
The 7AT in my 2010 C63 was good.... but not good enough in a sportscar. For a German muscle car, it was perfect. But if the A90 trans was like that, it would have been a deal breaker.
Even the last ISF and RCF 8AT trans is very good.... but not a shade on the ZF8. I am very impressed with it.
FWIW, my A60 is an Albins W58, my A70 an R154 and A80 a V161.
Jeff Lange
Well-Known Member
I could be wrong, but I'm about 99.8% sure that every GRMN model to date has been manual transmission, including models that didn't come with a manual transmission (Mark X for example). Of course that will change at some point because, as has been stated, manuals are dying.
Still, I have hope for a manual transmission in the Supra.
Jeff
Still, I have hope for a manual transmission in the Supra.
Jeff
Captain_Kirk
Well-Known Member
New M4 test car spotted with a manual.
[URL]https://www.carscoops.com/2020/04/yes-2021-bmw-m4-coupe-reveals-manual-gearbox-in-latest-spy-shots/[/URL]
[URL]https://www.carscoops.com/2020/04/yes-2021-bmw-m4-coupe-reveals-manual-gearbox-in-latest-spy-shots/[/URL]
supraboi
Well-Known Member
Autoblog is saying no MT for the new 4 series.
2021 BMW 4 Series says hello to big grilles, goodbye to manual transmission
https://www.autoblog.com/2020/06/02/2021-bmw-4-series-coupe-reveal/
2021 BMW 4 Series says hello to big grilles, goodbye to manual transmission
https://www.autoblog.com/2020/06/02/2021-bmw-4-series-coupe-reveal/
PerformanceSound
Well-Known Member
With Nissan’s new 400Z coming soon (which will be available with a manual), Toyota/BMW will grab a manual trans from the BMW parts bin (an M2 manual trans??). 2022 will be a great year for many car makers in terms of sports cars.
supraboi
Well-Known Member
Press release says 187.9 on the 430i & 188.0 for the M440i xDrive. Maybe its getting bigger because BMW is about the pull the plug on the slow selling 8 series.
https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/usa/article/detail/T0309161EN_US/the-new-2021-bmw-4-series-coupe
justbake
Well-Known Member
The 8 series isn't selling because it is roughly the same size and has similar trims as the outgoing 6 series but by giving it an 8 instead of a 6 they thought they could an additional $30k. I don't know why they need to compromise the 4 series to make up with their pitfalls of the 8 series. Just call the 8 series coupe the 6 series again and call it a day.Press release says 187.9 on the 430i & 188.0 for the M440i xDrive. Maybe its getting bigger because BMW is about the pull the plug on the slow selling 8 series.
https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/usa/article/detail/T0309161EN_US/the-new-2021-bmw-4-series-coupe
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