Audio upgrade options

dazza

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@dazza

I enjoy listening to EDM that has very deep bass tracks at a volume around 2/3 with subwoofer cover modifications made and I haven't experienced any popping issues or over excursion of woofers ...Below 2/3 volume the bass in my setup is deep and punchy with little distortion and no vibrations to speak of...

Here are my current audio settings:
  • ASD / Active Sound Design (off - using Bimmercode)
  • Surround (off)
  • Speed Volume (0)
  • Balance: (0)
  • Fade: (front +2)
  • Broad Bass (+2)
  • Broad Treble (-2)
  • Equalizer (shown below)
Equalizer settings after sound test.jpg


I saw what you had done originally and aside from some deviations you've made from what I had outlined here in How to Improve OE Subwoofer Quality and Eliminate Vibrations which most likely caused some additional vibrations and distortions (which I go through below), I also believe what you may be experiencing (as a few of us have discovered) is that the OE Amplifier itself starts distorting bass response at roughly 2/3 volume....At this point the Amp is unfortunately the weakest link which becomes even more apparent after eliminating all the other vibrations which allowed for the raising of volume even further...

That said, I'd like to clarify that even with the rear cover installed (without exhaust ports added) the OE woofer enclosures are still a ported setup...As I've mentioned a few times, placing a panel directly over these elongated ports (shown below) was a poor design decision by Toyota and the primary root cause of all the distortions and vibrations...

ported subs air flow.jpg


=======================================

Aside from this I did notice a few issues with the setup you chose to modify from what I had outlined and have added a few suggestions as to how to correct them which I hope you find helpful...

1) With the removal of the center bracket (shown below) that you decided to remove in your setup you also eliminated a key mount point of the center top cover which holds it down securely against the 8 subwoofer enclosure clips...

Subwoofer Top Cover Mounting Clip.jpg


Without this mounting point secured the top cover will vibrate particularly around the 8 mounting clips (#2) under the top cover that secure the woofer enclosures tightly against the top cover as shown in the shop drawing below....

Woofer Cover rear top mounts.jpg


2) You really didn't need to replace the OE grill covers to stop them from vibrating...The issue here again is not the mounting clips around the 12 spoked grill covers but moreso with the upper spoked cover vibrating against the lower grill plate...securing them together with drops of RTV (red dots shown below) eliminated any vibrations there...

woofer grill cover felt pads.jpg


3) Make sure that the speaker wadding you added to the enclosure interior sits flat against the walls and not wadded up into the space or you will create more distortions...If this is a problem to do then simply remove the wadding all together...

4) Have you disabled Active Sound Design (ASD) which injects a engine noise overlay signal onto the audio signal channels and creates quite a bit of distortion and muddies bass response....
Thanks Tadda,

I remounted the original speaker grills but placed felt between the plastic rings and yes I now have zero vibration there. The design looks cheap.

Your point about the wadding is interesting I don't feel like pulling everything apart again to get this wadding to lie flat against the walls as its impossible to do this from the front ports.

So perhaps the thumping which I thought was excursion was actually the top section moving due to not having that central support clip?

Now that everything is back together in its original form but with foam, felt and sound deadening everywhere the whole area is solid enough and vibration free with the original slim panel without ventilation and its works perfectly.

In regards to the ASD I have not disabled this yet? does it really make a big difference? I have the Aussie version of the Supra and the exhaust is almost as quiet as a Toyota Camry. I can barely hear the ASD? I am about to fit a AWE exhaust system however I am not sure the ASD is even effective or barely audible?
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tadda

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Thanks Tadda,

I remounted the original speaker grills but placed felt between the plastic rings and yes I now have zero vibration there. The design looks cheap.

Your point about the wadding is interesting I don't feel like pulling everything apart again to get this wadding to lie flat against the walls as its impossible to do this from the front ports.

I was able to feed the wadding through one of the three elongated ports and then manipulate the wadding into place against the walls using a long thin screw driver or long pic tool...You can also pull it back out from the front in the same manner...Stuffing that enclosure can have a negative effect on sound quality and will reduce bass response if not done correctly....


So perhaps the thumping which I thought was excursion was actually the top section moving due to not having that central support clip?

This very well could have been the case...


Now that everything is back together in its original form but with foam, felt and sound deadening everywhere the whole area is solid enough and vibration free with the original slim panel without ventilation and its works perfectly.

I tried this as well during some early investigations with insulating everything without porting the rear panel...Yes you can eliminate most of the vibrations using the foam and sound deadening however the bass won't be as deep, punchy, or loud...


In regards to the ASD I have not disabled this yet? does it really make a big difference? I have the Aussie version of the Supra and the exhaust is almost as quiet as a Toyota Camry. I can barely hear the ASD? I am about to fit a AWE exhaust system however I am not sure the ASD is even effective or barely audible?

Absolutely Yes...Most of us that have disabled ASD notice a big difference in sound quality...Think of it this way, overlaying synthesized exhaust noise onto the audio signal doesn't improve the sound quality and actually distorts it quite a bit...
 

dazza

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Ok Tadda, I think you have some solid points and it makes sense. I am going to think about a new panel out of timber with ports as I am still reluctant to cut into my OEM panel.

Keeping all the brackets in place for structural integrity.

Perhaps use some stiff wire to manipulate the wadding in place to avoid taking that top section off again.

In regards to the ASD. I read somewhere that the disabling it in Bimmercode is easy to do but it cannot be reversed without reversing all the coding I have already done to the car? My issue is that my exhaust is still 5 weeks away from being installed and if I turn this ASD off the engine is going to sound awful (despite being fake noise anyway) Is it true that you cannot simply reverse that single setting in Bimmercode just to try it out?

I also read that you can unplug the ASD module(in the trunk - your post) and it does not throw any CEL codes but this requires me to remove more panels in the car which are held down by trunk clamps which I am more reluctant to do.

May I ask does ASD make such a difference to the engine note or is it so subtle and barely audible it wasnt worth Toyota adding it in the first place?
 

tadda

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May I ask does ASD make such a difference to the engine note or is it so subtle and barely audible it wasnt worth Toyota adding it in the first place?
ASD isn't connected to your exhaust system and does not change external exhaust sound in any way...ASD is simply an electrical sound generator which overlays a faux engine sound on top of the audio signal inside the cabin...

Those of us that have removed ASD have noticed a significant improvement in audio clarity...

Active sound design description 2.jpg
 

dazza

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Thanks, yes I was aware of the ASD function I guess I was asking if it made a difference to the sound in the cabin (Fake Engine Noise) was the cabin a lot quieter after disabling it?

I understand that it improves the Audio quality but putting the Audio sound quality aside is the car in general a lot quieter. As I have tried to listen for it and perhaps think its heard very subtly at idle as a low hum sound but unlike the fake noise generator in my Golf R which adds a tremendous amount of noise to the cabin with its Soundaktor device which gets louder as I rev.

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H2O_Doc

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I was stunned by how crappy the rear speakers are. My M240i is similar, meh in the front and bad in the back and just by dropping JLs in the back (no lectures on sound stage, please) the sound was significantly improved.

The Supra is similar but more extreme. The fronts aren’t great, but passable, but the rears are holy crap WTF. So, I’m thinking of replacing the rears and calling it a day (apart from the sub I am putting in). My thoughts are to skip the components and just get a coaxial as the main and tweeter are so close together anyway. I’m thinking Focal RCX-100s. Sound good and reasonably priced. Anyone know that they wouldn’t fit? Any other suggestions for a coaxial under $200? I have a strong preference for not adding an amp or a bunch of work. My tastes lean toward warmer sounding speakers.
 

METAL

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OEMAudio+ just confirmed via email they are not utilizing the oem subs :(. System is planned to release shortly. Guess I'm going Audison.
 

tadda

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OEMAudio+ just confirmed via email they are not utilizing the oem subs :(. System is planned to release shortly. Guess I'm going Audison.
I was just told by them the other day they plan on releasing in May...kinda funny since they told us originally it was to be released last Sept...Anyway I'm really disappointed with their approach and don't plan on purchasing anyway...
 

dazza

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Made some decisions on my audio system and commenced some work
So far to keep weight down and simplify the installation somewhat I decided to go with the following.
I am somewhat hoping a single sub and two door speakers will be enough. If not I will buy another 10 inch subwoofer and also add the additional two speakers behind the seats.

So the centre channel and the rear speakers will be disconnected for now.


Components are:


DA-G2.PRO MOST25 - Take out the OEM amplifier and simply plug this unit in, in its place and you can run any amplifier you like, set time alignment, dsp 10 channel analogue out fibre out.

https://mobridge.us/product/da-g2-pro-most25/

amplifier yet to be determined I have a 4 channel Alpine I want to try first.

Single 10 inch Audioson Subwoofer - APS10D
https://www.audison.eu/products/aps-10-d/

Door Speakers - MUSWAY CSB4.2C BMW
https://www.sound-tech.com.au/csb4-2c/

So I have removed the entire rear OEM subwoofer section built a shallow (to spec) box for the 10 inch subwoofer.

Used rubber backed boot carpet for behind the seats trying to keep the weight down(not use timber). Cut to size it magnetically attaches to the subwoofer box to hold it perfectly in place and can be removed in seconds.

Made carpeted covered foam inserts to fill in the sides.

Made a panel in the trunk that magnetically attaches to the sub box and original metal brackets

It can all be pulled apart in seconds if need be.

I have not installed the electronics yet.

I think the weight would be similar to OEM.

Next week I will start the wiring and connection.

I am driving around only playing through the front, rear and centre channel as the OEM subwoofers have been removed.

I did not want to take up any more room the height is marginally taller than OEM. 1 inch

Its solid no rattles and creaks infact it eliminated some noise I would hear from time to time in the rear when going over certain bumps.
 

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METAL

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I was thinking of putting a couple Audison 8" reflex subs on the deck with ports.
 

METAL

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I have done my research and found the below components to be what I'll need for my audio system replacement.

Audison bit DMI (replaces factory amp)
Audison APF8.9 bit (will install between the subs, or within the driver side cavity of the trunk.)
Audison APBMW K4E (2-way passive fronts): running ch1 & ch2 @85w rms 4-ohms
Audison APBMW K4M (2-way passive rears): running ch3 & ch4 @85w rms 4-ohms
Audison APS 8 R (left sub): running ch5+ch6 bridged @260w rms 4-ohms
Audison APS 8 R (right sub): running ch7+ch8 bridged @260w rms 4-ohms

This system will be a drop in, plug and play setup with a custom ported sub box replacing the oem sub shelf. Will need to schedule a time with the shop for an estimate.

The shop should be able to source all Audison harnesses to match up with our BMW harnesses to make it easy to return to stock if needed.

This setup I believe is appropriate for this type of car considering it's nature of needing to be light and not take up precious cargo space.
 
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mObridge

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I have done my research and found the below components to be what I'll need for my audio system replacement.

Audison bit DMI (replaces factory amp)
Audison APF8.9 bit (will install between the subs, or within the driver side cavity of the trunk.)
Audison APBMW K4M (2-way passive fronts): running ch1 & ch2 @85w rms 4-ohms
Audison APBMW K4E (2-way passive rears): running ch3 & ch4 @85w rms 4-ohms
Audison APS 8 R (left sub): running ch5+ch6 bridged @260w rms 4-ohms
Audison APS 8 R (right sub): running ch7+ch8 bridged @260w rms 4-ohms

This system will be a drop in, plug and play setup with a custom ported sub box replacing the oem sub shelf. Will need to schedule a time with the shop for an estimate.

The shop should be able to source all Audison harnesses to match up with our BMW harnesses to make it easy to return to stock if needed.

This setup I believe is appropriate for this type of car considering it's nature of needing to be light and not take up precious cargo space.
The bit DMI will work in the car with a quick software update coming out this week.

Or you can just go the full integrated MOST amp solution which will save you time and space https://mobridge.us/product/mobridge-most25-amp/

cheers,

mObridge
 

METAL

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Thanks @mObridge.

Are these specs real (rms)?
  • 6x 175W Channels @ 4ohms
  • 2x 300W Channels @ 4ohms
  • 1x 500W Subwoofer Channel @ 4ohms (or 1000W @ 2 Ohms)
  • 1x 4V RMS pre-out
Will you provide the necessary harness to keep it plug and play?

What would this cost?
 

dazza

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Thanks @mObridge.

Are these specs real (rms)?
  • 6x 175W Channels @ 4ohms
  • 2x 300W Channels @ 4ohms
  • 1x 500W Subwoofer Channel @ 4ohms (or 1000W @ 2 Ohms)
  • 1x 4V RMS pre-out
Will you provide the necessary harness to keep it plug and play?

What would this cost?
GO Mobridge. I can vouch for them from my expereince. Latest firmware works perfectly and its plug and play.

I installed the pro preamp. https://mobridge.us/product/da-g2-pro-most25/

10 channels preamp outputs. You have full control of the output.

Channel mixing for centre and subwoofer, output level control for level matching each speaker.

main output level control. Time alignment, crossover points, slope, you can adjust the frequency curve to boost or lower output in certain freqencies. Just about everything you need to fix the signal. Also the phone, NAV, warning chimes levels can be adjusted and you set which speaker you want to play them out of or all speakers.

You simply remove the existing OEM amplifier and ASD module and plug the fibre optic cable into this small light mobridge unit, plug in your PC and set it up very easy and quick.

The mobridge unit slides under the bracket where the ASD unit fitted.

I did not cut a single wire and can return this to stock.

Currently I am running a single 10 inch Audison Sub and two cheap Kicker coaxials in the doors all driven off a cheap Alpine 4 channel amplifier. This simple cheap system was a trial run before I spent more on components however it sounds far superior to the OEM in all areas and is far louder. TBH I could leave it as is, its that good. Essentially thee speakers.

I am also keen to move to Mobridge Amplifier add another 10 inch sub if it fits and run wires to the doors for a full active system controlled by the mobridge software.

Here is the Alpine amplifier and Mobridge hidden behind the left panel in the trunk.
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