A90 Supra life cycle: Incremental updates? New variants coming? What's next?

[MoTeC_R]

I wonder how much it would cost for someone to take their car there to have that done

From everything I’ve seen, they are only producing 100 in Japan and they will be sold new not upgraded. Although to be able to buy an upgrade package as an option would be cherry. The production units will sell for ungodly amounts and then trying to export on top of that. Even the package to upgrade to mechanically and cosmetically would be extremely expensive as well and not a true production car value after completed unfortunately. It would retain desired value for what it is but not like 1/100 units sold new would. I mean the 1/1500 A90-LE sold for an ungodly $2,000,000.00.

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[KahnBB6]

Question: should the S58 Supra have a manual?

*Should* an S58 powered Supra have a manual? Yes, of course as an option next to whatever auto or DCT is likely also planned.

*Will* it have a manual...? I'm not going to hold my breath given that the GRMN is more of an ultimate track monster variant but here's hoping it gets both options since this will now apparently be the last internal combustion Supra after all.

Given that this is now the case (the A100 leaning more towards being a full EV) I feel an S58 powered Supra GRMN should get a manual option just because it's the last opportunity to do everything possible with the platform... so why not? An S58 Supra GRMN 6-speed manual would be sought after for a VERY long time to come.

And in addition of course let's see what a DCT can do as well.

Even if there will be no manual GRMN right now I feel the regular Supra 3.0L manual is just an excellent package overall that finally put the desirable transmission with the desirable engine configuration. And it's attainable. The GRMN will be both extremely expensive and ridiculously limited just like the GR Corolla Morizo Edition.

The GRMN will not disappoint regardless of which transmission option(s) are available for it.

 

[MoTeC_R]

To be fair, the s2000 got a completely different engine in its mid life refresh.

The refresh would have been purely cosmetic’s if it weren’t for the desire to appeal more to US consumers desire for more power. It wasn’t really a part of the refresh plan as much as a marketing play on US consumers with more engine size and very slight increase in torque.

 

[jtsang25]

From everything I’ve seen, they are only producing 100 in Japan and they will be sold new not upgraded. Although to be able to buy an upgrade package as an option would be cherry. The production units will sell for ungodly amounts and then trying to export on top of that. Even the package to upgrade to mechanically and cosmetically would be extremely expensive as well and not a true production car value after completed unfortunately. It would retain desired value for what it is but not like 1/100 units sold new would. I mean the 1/1500 A90-LE sold for an ungodly $2,000,000.00.

Think he's talking about the targa not GRMN. But yes a GRMN package would be pricey.

 

[MoTeC_R]

Think he's talking about the targa not GRMN. But yes a GRMN package would be pricey.

He mentioned the S58 though and if that’s the case we aren’t getting the targa and S58 next year… BUT-I’d love to be completely wrong on this and at the dealership placing my deposits for a targa S58 A92-ME (Moist Edition) at every area dealer immediately upon press release, just begging them to mushroom stamp my forehead with dealer-markups!

Honestly, if they just announce the targa I’ll be doing just the same, but I will try to avoid the mushroom stamp…

 

[BMWAF]

I still see no credible evidence for the GRMN or the Targa. It honestly just looks like one single rumor coming out of Japan has been recycled and regurgitated by English speaking motoring press and then again by the bottom feeding YouTube morons.

Nothing to see here.. yet.

 

[MoTeC_R]

I still see no credible evidence for the GRMN or the Targa. It honestly just looks like one single rumor coming out of Japan has been recycled and regurgitated by English speaking motoring press and then again by the bottom feeding YouTube morons.

Nothing to see here.. yet.

Everything is pipe dreams and propaganda until something happens or we see the proof. I still have my popcorn out for the press releases for MY24 and MY25 to see what the future brings.

 

[Marsone]

Everything is pipe dreams and propaganda until something happens or we see the proof. I still have my popcorn out for the press releases for MY24 and MY25 to see what the future brings.

Like someone mentioned earlier, Toyota started teasing the manual transmission around this time last year, so if there’s something special in the pipeline for ‘24, we may see some teasers soon.

 

[AHP]

I've said this in other threads.. A targa top is never happening because there's no way to stow it in the hatch without massive changes to the unibody.

 

[Stvee]

I'm somewhat expecting another small bump in power for 2024. There were rumors last year around this time that BMW was coming out with a new B58 variant.

 

[Schang105]

My crystal . GRMN Supra will be sold somewhere, but effectively unobtanium for us common folk. So EV Supra will be more relevant. By 2030, Mazda will churn out enough premium-ish SUVs to chip away at the entry level luxury market and keep killing it on design and quality. Then joint development program project with Toyota to do an RX model (maybe same chassis as EV Supra), but with that sweet, sweet in house inline 6. Bonus if there is a rotary anything involved. So my crackpot prediction is... a Mazda RX co-developed with Toyota on an EV Supra chassis using a Mazda inline 6 with a mild-hybird rotary thing! (This assumes Mazda doesn't put all development $$$ into the EV Miata, which probably will happen anyway).

 

[KahnBB6]

My crystal . GRMN Supra will be sold somewhere, but effectively unobtanium for us common folk. So EV Supra will be more relevant. By 2030, Mazda will churn out enough premium-ish SUVs to chip away at the entry level luxury market and keep killing it on design and quality. Then joint development program project with Toyota to do an RX model (maybe same chassis as EV Supra), but with that sweet, sweet in house inline 6. Bonus if there is a rotary anything involved. So my crackpot prediction is... a Mazda RX co-developed with Toyota on an EV Supra chassis using a Mazda inline 6 with a mild-hybird rotary thing! (This assumes Mazda doesn't put all development $$$ into the EV Miata, which probably will happen anyway).

Agreed on the GRMN Supra MKV not being very available or obtainable. It'll be a first if it makes it out of Japan... and even if it does I can't imagine very many being made per year. That it is happening I think is a given at this point.

An EV Supra is pretty much a given as well... although prior to recent news we all assumed it would be using an in-house Toyota V6 turbocharged hybrid powerplant or a reworked Mazda I6 turbocharged hybrid powerplant. But now that's all in question.

Toyota GR and Mazda have definitely been co-developing some kind of sportscar platform together with electric motors as the primary power delivery method to the wheels. The Mazda version was said to have the rotary as a range extender generator only though (except that it would reportedly rev out as you accelerate even though it would not directly power the wheels).

^^ This was thought to be a Celica & RX coupe project. Who knows at this point...?

And then there is the new sportscar platform that Toyota and Lexus both share but with very different implementations. Given the new 100% EV Supra news (which we previously expected in an A110 rather than an A100) that's also a "who really knows yet" case at this point.

Mazda is certainly investing in a 100% EV future Miata to try their best to keep the model and as much of its ethos alive as possible but for the immediate future the *very next* Miata has been slated to be an ICE hybrid gas-electric design before the 100% EV Miata generation is ready.

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I would love to see Mazda and Toyota do something with that excellent inline-six turbo hybrid engine but until more news comes out the direction of all of this is hard to discern right now otehr than that in the long term all of these models will sooner or later become EVs.

Further, the news of the Toyota, Suzuki and Daihatsu co-developed MR-2 style 1.0L gas-electric hybrid small sportscar is promising. Hopefully it gets sold globally and not just as a Kei car.

 

[Bryster]

Agreed on the GRMN Supra MKV not being very available or obtainable. It'll be a first if it makes it out of Japan... and even if it does I can't imagine very many being made per year. That it is happening I think is a given at this point.

An EV Supra is pretty much a given as well... although prior to recent news we all assumed it would be using an in-house Toyota V6 turbocharged hybrid powerplant or a reworked Mazda I6 turbocharged hybrid powerplant. But now that's all in question.

Toyota GR and Mazda have definitely been co-developing some kind of sportscar platform together with electric motors as the primary power delivery method to the wheels. The Mazda version was said to have the rotary as a range extender generator only though (except that it would reportedly rev out as you accelerate even though it would not directly power the wheels).

^^ This was thought to be a Celica & RX coupe project. Who knows at this point...?

And then there is the new sportscar platform that Toyota and Lexus both share but with very different implementations. Given the new 100% EV Supra news (which we previously expected in an A110 rather than an A100) that's also a "who really knows yet" case at this point.

Mazda is certainly investing in a 100% EV future Miata to try their best to keep the model and as much of its ethos alive as possible but for the immediate future the *very next* Miata has been slated to be an ICE hybrid gas-electric design before the 100% EV Miata generation is ready.

....

I would love to see Mazda and Toyota do something with that excellent inline-six turbo hybrid engine but until more news comes out the direction of all of this is hard to discern right now otehr than that in the long term all of these models will sooner or later become EVs.

Further, the news of the Toyota, Suzuki and Daihatsu co-developed MR-2 style 1.0L gas-electric hybrid small sportscar is promising. Hopefully it gets sold globally and not just as a Kei car.

I'm still hoping for the Toyota Chaser/Mazda 6

 

[KahnBB6]

I'm still hoping for the Toyota Chaser/Mazda 6

I would LOVE to see even one generation of a co-developed Mazda 6 / Toyota Chaser with Mazda's inline-six engine. It's not much to go on but there was at least one Toyota GR press or engineering employee who said a single little blurb about whether or not we'd like to see a GR sedan model.

Since then... nothing at all. It could have been a hint about a GR Prius four-door or just a four-door sedan version of the GR Corolla or it could have been a hint at something else the division has been thinking of.

I'd love it if a pair of co-developed Toyota Chaser & Mazda 6 twin sport sedans were what he was referring to. I have seen nothing to indicate that is a real possibility but here's for being wishful about it.

It is difficult for me to imagine that Toyota's GR division hasn't at least looked into the possibility of doing *some* kind of co-development project with Mazda for a performance car and that they haven't at least considered utilizing Mazda's new inline-six engine family for something or other.

We need more details to leak out to have a better handle on any of these things beyond just speculation but I agree with you in spirit.

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Further... Mazda really wants to make a serious go of moving upscale as a brand now. They haven't tried this since attempting to launch their stillborn Amati luxury brand in the early 1990's.

They also have to deal with an electrification shift in general. It is very possible that their on-again-off-again tie up with Toyota for certain products and technology sharing may be part of their way towards that long term goal.

I'm just laying that on the table but if it adds fuel to help try to divine some of Mazda's thinking in all of this...

And of course somewhere in there Mazda is committed to keeping the Miata alive both as ICE and eventually as an EV and they also really want to offer a rotary RX sportscar again in some form (although the latter has so far been a moving target for them).

I think they will finally do at least one more rotary performance car but it may indeed be as a cleverly implemented range extended rotary with electric motors.

But the Miata and their next RX sportscar aspirations are their own thing. Scaling up their brand as a whole and improving their technology portfolio is key to their overall long term survival and success. And this is where I think it does make sense where Toyota's deep pockets and more advanced general EV tech, battery tech and hydrogen fuel cell tech might come into play... possibly... with some kind of shared benefits for Toyota as well.

The recent big shifts in developing advanced dedicated EV chassis architectures that are scalable for several types of models probably changes things for all of these companies but in this period of overlapping products and transition that's my vague hypothesis so far.

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If it benefits Mazda to have co-development money and shared costs to sell a much nicer Mazda 6 RWD I-6 sedan with Toyota GR who could then sell a version of it as a Chaser/Mark II sport sedan with several key design specifications of their own then I could see that happening and benefitting both brands.

Hypothetically then Mazda would be handling all production for both cars just as it is for the GR86 and BRZ. Would volume be higher on the Mazda 6 side in that scenario?

And would that one collaboration tie-up represent the only aspect of this hypothetical "what if" deal between the two companies or would there be more to it than just a co-developed pair of sport sedans?

Lexus is shifting into an accelerated EV push one model at a time faster than the Toyota side is so I think in terms of further Mazda engine sharing with Toyota it is an interesting thing to think about.

With that we have to wait until we know more actual details hinting about anything on this subject that we can truly bite into...

 

[GRMan]

I personally don't see the next Supra being EV, again it's just my opinion (not insider news)

Given the Supra is a low volume halo car for Toyota, they would want to retain the ICE straight 6 heritage for as long as possible. Given their extensive investments in hybrids and hydrogen ICE, experimenting their race cars with biofuel and synthetic fuel, EV (given the huge increase in weight and the lengthy charging time) seems to be the least likely solution for their halo car Supra.

Akio Toyoda is keen to show the world there are other better solutions for a sports car (the sounds, lower weight, ease of refuelling...etc) while being carbon neutral. I am quite sure the next Supra won't be a full EV.

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