AT & MT Feedback Needed

[F1 Silver Arrows]

@ichitaka05 Definitely do that please. ^^

 

[PerformanceSound]

*** Please note, this information is "unofficial" and may or may not be accurate. I am simply relaying information to the community ***

Latest info about the manual transmission is that Toyota is having difficulty sourcing a manual transmission "strong" enough to meet their durability standards. When asked "why not use a robust affordable transmission like the Tremec Magnum" the response I got was, "the Tremec doesn't meet Toyota's strict gearing, cooling, and weight requirements for the A90." I will share more information as I find out more.

Good news is, still not a hard NO on a manual transmission yet.

 

[thedude]

I drove manuals for 20+ years straight. My current car of 3.5 years is a dual clutch, and honestly I don’t miss the manual. When I feel like making gear changes myself I can, and when I don’t (the majority of the time) I’m more than happy. I drive a 2016 S4 and honestly the newer S4 with a ZF auto shifts better and responds more reliably to gear change input than the DSG (I had one as a service loaner).

Will it be perfect in every possible situation? No. However, I have no qualms about the ZF in the Supra and looking forward to my new car.

 

[HKz]

you weren't a manual dude if flipping a paddle gives you the same satisfaction...or you're just a grandpa now

 

[thedude]

you weren't a manual dude if flipping a paddle gives you the same satisfaction...or you're just a grandpa now

It’s about the car not the control set.

A good car is a good car - too often a manual transmission is a consolation prize for the sporting driver when the rest of the machine falls woefully short.

 

[KahnBB6]

*** Please note, this information is "unofficial" and may or may not be accurate. I am simply relaying information to the community ***

Latest info about the manual transmission is that Toyota is having difficulty sourcing a manual transmission "strong" enough to meet their durability standards. When asked "why not use a robust affordable transmission like the Tremec Magnum" the response I got was, "the Tremec doesn't meet Toyota's strict gearing, cooling, and weight requirements for the A90." I will share more information as I find out more.

Good news is, still not a hard NO on a manual transmission yet.

Thank you for the update, Performance! And your disclaimer above is noted. Still, I would be perfectly happy if Toyota were to bend their standards just a bit for the manual gearbox such that a Tremec Magnum or TR6060 OEM variant could be adapted for production.

They were allowed to compromise on Toyota's current standards for things like door sills and passenger ingress/egress and seating position, etc. to make the MKV's chassis happen after all.

If true I understand where they are coming from but as currently developed OEM-capable RWD manual transmission designs go in 2019 the Tremec Magnum/TR-6060 is still an excellent choice.

here's hoping they find a strong solution that satisfies their requirements, or a high enough percentage of them to be satisfactory, to allow the option to be made available.

 

[Bryster]

*** Please note, this information is "unofficial" and may or may not be accurate. I am simply relaying information to the community ***

Latest info about the manual transmission is that Toyota is having difficulty sourcing a manual transmission "strong" enough to meet their durability standards. When asked "why not use a robust affordable transmission like the Tremec Magnum" the response I got was, "the Tremec doesn't meet Toyota's strict gearing, cooling, and weight requirements for the A90." I will share more information as I find out more.

Good news is, still not a hard NO on a manual transmission yet.

 

[PerformanceSound]

Thank you for the update, Performance! And your disclaimer above is noted. Still, I would be perfectly happy if Toyota were to bend their standards just a bit for the manual gearbox such that a Tremec Magnum or TR6060 OEM variant could be adapted for production.

They were allowed to compromise on Toyota's current standards for things like door sills and passenger ingress/egress and seating position, etc. to make the MKV's chassis happen after all.

If true I understand where they are coming from but as currently developed OEM-capable RWD manual transmission designs go in 2019 the Tremec Magnum/TR-6060 is still an excellent choice.

here's hoping they find a strong solution that satisfies their requirements, or a high enough percentage of them to be satisfactory, to allow the option to be made available.

Yeah, I too wouldn’t mind a Tremec in the A90. However, if what I'm being told is true...then even the Tremec may also get the boot soon too with other manufacturers.

With that being said, I wonder what the “negatives” will be with manual swap kits? I mean, if Toyota themselves cannot give a thumbs up for the Tremec, what gives the aftermarket a fighting chance? Fitting a manual into the A90 is one thing....however, gearing it (ratios) correctly, keeping it within operating temps, and keeping its weight within acceptable limits as to not throw off the cars balance will be a different story.

Keeping fingers crossed for a manual...otherwise my A90 funds will get directed towards a billet block for the STI ;-).

 

[ichitaka05]

Thank you for the update, Performance! And your disclaimer above is noted. Still, I would be perfectly happy if Toyota were to bend their standards just a bit for the manual gearbox such that a Tremec Magnum or TR6060 OEM variant could be adapted for production.

They were allowed to compromise on Toyota's current standards for things like door sills and passenger ingress/egress and seating position, etc. to make the MKV's chassis happen after all.

If true I understand where they are coming from but as currently developed OEM-capable RWD manual transmission designs go in 2019 the Tremec Magnum/TR-6060 is still an excellent choice.

here's hoping they find a strong solution that satisfies their requirements, or a high enough percentage of them to be satisfactory, to allow the option to be made available.

Haha me & Guff was talking about this. How cool or crazy to put Tremec Magnum into the Supra. Japanese car w German engine w American Transmission. lol

iirc Tremec Magnum weight 65~70lbs lighter than ZF 8HP, so that's one spot Toyota can look into shaving weight. I also thought Magnum tq Capacity was 700, so it can def handle the power... but like other have stated, power isn't much of issue, it's the safety and cooling are the biggest concern for Toyota. I don't think, Toyota will bend their standards for the safety... BUT I can see them bending their standards for non-safety stuff (which they have done in Supra).

 

[A70TTR]

Tremec is also not a TMC supplier, nor have they ever been AFAIK.

That said, I'm sure he could leverage ZF (through BMW) or even Aisin to make a manual to preference; paying for the R&D though, well that's another story. It sounds like none of the current offerings please him, if these public commentaries are correct, so I assume he wants something built from the ground up for the application. In any case, Toyota definitely does have many standards to follow and some of the rules have certainly been bent already for this car so...



I don't think Tada ever planned to make the car AT only, at least not after seeing his passion for the 6MT FRS/86. If you ever ask him about that transmission, he will launch into how proud he is of how it feels and how much excitement he had developing and using it. I mean sure he's proud of the ZF8 performance (it's great), but he of all people knows the difference.

 

[PerformanceSound]

Haha me & Guff was talking about this. How cool or crazy to put Tremec Magnum into the Supra. Japanese car w German engine w American Transmission. lol

iirc Tremec Magnum weight 65~70lbs lighter than ZF 8HP, so that's one spot Toyota can look into shaving weight. I also thought Magnum tq Capacity was 700, so it can def handle the power... but like other have stated, power isn't much of issue, it's the safety and cooling are the biggest concern for Toyota. I don't think, Toyota will bend their standards for the safety... BUT I can see them bending their standards for non-safety stuff (which they have done in Supra).

By weight, do you think they could be referring to a complete solution (i.e., driveshaft, joints, rear diff, clutch pedal assembly, bell housing, tunnel, lines, fluid, etc...) and not necessarily an auto trans vs. manual trans and nothing more? Nothing further on whether it was a "too heavy" or "too light" concern....just that weight wasn't up to "Toyota's strict standards." Does that mean the whole car and not necessarily individual components?....idk.

What if the concern is that the car would be too light for the power it's making? Throwing off the cars balance?

 

[ichitaka05]

What if the concern is that the car would be too light for the power it's making? Throwing off the cars balance?

There's no such thing as too light for the power it's making... especially it's <400hp. iirc Supra weight barely under 3,400 lbs. Even shaving another 200~300 lbs won't hurt. Hell, if they can weight Supra under 3,200 lbs keeping same hp w MT, I'll be running into dealership putting DP. BUT sadly, only Supra that's under 3,200 lbs is Japanese base model (SZ). With that said, B58 ver Supra isn't true 50/50 weight unless you put driver in there (very light driver too) vs B48 ver weight 50/50 without driver, so B58 & B48 Supra driving character change a bit. So changing the car's balance isn't big concern imo.

 

[HKz]

It’s about the car not the control set.

A good car is a good car - too often a manual transmission is a consolation prize for the sporting driver when the rest of the machine falls woefully short.

too often? maybe a couple decades ago but show me where that happens now when only a handful of new cars out there have a stick? still, I would much rather control a car with shitty dynamics using a manual than having a computer dictate things for me.. Soon y'all are gonna be ok with completely automated gas & brake pedals!

 

[thedude]

too often? maybe a couple decades ago but show me where that happens now when only a handful of new cars out there have a stick? still, I would much rather control a car with shitty dynamics using a manual than having a computer dictate things for me.. Soon y'all are gonna be ok with completely automated gas & brake pedals!

We disagree but that’s perfectly fine.

 

[Turbro]

too often? maybe a couple decades ago but show me where that happens now when only a handful of new cars out there have a stick? still, I would much rather control a car with shitty dynamics using a manual than having a computer dictate things for me.. Soon y'all are gonna be ok with completely automated gas & brake pedals!

Well I agree. If there is the option on any car currently on the market, I’m taking a manual no matter how good it is with an auto. 100% will choose manual.