Hybrid Supra Rumors & Chatter / B58 hybrid

[supraboi]

I wonder if we will see an all electric Supra one day?

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[Nurburgring]

Interesting this article mentions the Supra will have a mild hybrid option, 48v, 20hp/70Nm.

 

[Bryster]

I was just reading this, and it hit me
What if Toyota uses the ZF8 on the Supra,works their hybrid magic, then trickle it down to the CH-R or LC-H?or even the AWD Prius(it's compatible)
https://www.zf.com/products/en/cars/products_34944.html

 

[elpadrino]

I'm sorry what? The cheaper, non-hybrid LC500 sells way more than the hybrid. Nobody wants a hybrid in performance cars unless it significantly overcomes the weight penalty it adds through performance. The 918, while being a performance masterpiece was always dinged for that and it cost a million bucks!

 

[Australian of The North]

[content removed]

 

[rtoadyt]

Interesting, i didn't realise this about the ZF box.

Now for the first time I can see where this car could have a real party rick up its sleeve.

I've got a feeling Toyota MIGHT be WAY ahead of all of us with it. Because its actually fantastic idea.
It adds 40 hp and 230nm (170lb ft) of torque at the cost of one small electrical motor?
That would then put the car at 375-380hp(sound familiar ?)
BUT more importantly, a WHOPPING 535 lb ft of torque(same as an 8.2lt gen 3 viper).
Compare that against the the now piddly 315 lb ft (once mighty) in the OEM MkIV with its 2jz-gte, and you see the win factor there. Granted many MkIV are boosted, but they wont be making that torque level without more significant upgrades.

That huge torque increase would have to put the car well around a 3.5 second 0-60 time. Not to mention the much faster response of the electrical motor would drastically reduce lap times and overall performance.

Now lets say Toyota says "hold my beer, i'm making a Supra-GRMN verision," and instead of engine changes, it adds a seond electrical motor again to the system. Say another 40hp 230nm . You then got 420 Hp , 720 lb ft torque monster (well sort of). in a sub 1600kg frame, it would have More torque INSTANTLY available sitting idle, than the MkIV has at peak power levels.

Why isn't Toyota already selling it like this?




Agreed, but many of the new hybrids are doing just that. Hybrids are now far from that "dinged" idea, especially when they set new nurburgring records like the 918 did.

Hybrid tech is in fact its a brilliant idea that just needs continual development. Its mostly social insecurity, misunderstanding and stigma that causes certain demographics to avoid them. having a hybrid power system takes nothing away from the driving experience when employed correctly - power delivery is always power delivery, be it from Electrical or from ICE. In fact Electrical Power delivery is much much more "OMFG thats fast" capable than any ICE engine will ever be.

From an engineering perspective electrical motors are VASTLY superior to internal combustion, not just for simplicity, but mostly for their astronomical efficiency levels V the pathetic equivalent in ICE, not to mention their vastly bigger instant torque and lighting fast response in multiple vectors. Battery tech is the only prob holding/killing the massive potential of the EV platform. Solve that and ICE is dead in the water tomorrow, if not 1 hour. But since the battery problem inst going away anytime soon,(in fact it could be a LONG time), Hybrids are the next best solution to combine the best of both worlds and ICE continues to rule for now.

The basic idea is simple, Take a small highly efficient, low emissions and reasonable 400 HP engine, then slap on 4 x 200 hp electrical wheel motor in each for a total of 1200 hp+ and 2000+lb ft of torque. Good idea, but very hard to achieve in actual real world engineering, although its well on the way. Koenigsegg Regera as an example - 3 Electrical motors, 1 mighty twin turbo V8, 1590kg loaded, total of 1800 HP and 1,475 lb ft of what i like to think of as "Smart" Torque. (Torque vectoring)

The P1, La Ferrari, and the 918 are no longer rare examples, they were the begging of the new age now underway and will filter down to all sports cars in time.

On the LC500 front, The LC500 range simply isnt really performance by design. its a bit fat luxury GT cruiser that happens to look like a athlete. Its the weight of a small moon at 2150kg because of the core chassis design supporting convertible tops, and its focus on fuel efficiency with its 2 electrical motors via CVT. Although the Hybrid does produce MORE total torque than the V8 as a result.

Toyota Needs to put hybrid in the MkV. The benefits really could shut a lot of detractors up.

Idea v execution v reality. That's where the concern lies.

 

[mas921]

the only electrification that makes sense in a sub $100k car are electrified Turbos.
i hope that Toyota did collect enough market data from the release of the new NSX....

 

[Bryster]

the only electrification that makes sense in a sub $100k car are electrified Turbos.
i hope that Toyota did collect enough market data from the release of the new NSX....

Remember the electric supercharger?

 

[gymratter]

https://www.motoring.com.au/tada-rejects-toyota-supra-hybrid-120366/

Tada rejects Toyota Supra hybrid

Chief engineer confirms he said “no” to the marketing department; no manual, 2.0-litre or convertible either

The storming new GR Toyota Supra looks set to flout the company’s electrification plans, with no hybrid version planned for the current generation.

Toyota’s global strategy calls for all models to have an electrified option by 2025, but unless the A90 Supra launched this week in Australia has a lifespan that ends in 2024 then it’s been given an exemption from that plan.

We’ve reported the Toyota electrification plan here, although since then Toyota has got even more aggressive and declared it wants electrified vehicles to account for half its sale volume by 2025 rather than 2030.

There was a suggestion from one Toyota official at the launch that the electrification plan referred to model categories rather than each model, which would give the Supra a free pass. But in publicly issued literature here and globally Toyota has been explicitly clear in talking about all models having an electrified option.

The confirmation of no hybrid for A90 Supra came from the car’s chief engineer Tetsuya Tada, who was in Australia this week for the media first drive.

“The Toyota marketing people are asking me to develop a hybrid Supra and I say no,” Tada explained via a translator.

Tada’s objections to hybrid power for the Supra run the gamut from space and technical issues, to an emotional preference for petrol engines.

“When you think about the battery space, the performance will be worse … I don’t like it [hybrid] personally. The weight is the issue.

“Personally I love the nostalgic gasoline engine; the smell and the sound like a sports car.”

The Supra is a very close relation of the new BMW Z4 and the two share a BMW 3.0-litre turbo-petrol inline six-cylinder engine. A hybrid version of that engine does exist.

The only glimmer of hope for a Supra hybrid – if there is any — offered by Tada was a rethink if the size, weight and performance of hybrid tech improves. Even then he made clear he wouldn’t be taking on the engineering task of a Supra hybrid.

“It won’t be a driving fun because it will be heavier. But of course the technology is advancing so maybe in the near future there will be a point where you can use EV or hybrid in this car, but at the moment not.

“For the new generation engineers, maybe they can do it. I am a very old engineer.”

Tada also made it clear two other Z4 features – a drop-top and a manual gearbox – had been studied but weren’t part of the current Supra development plans.

Despite saying previously that it would be studied, he said he didn’t believe a market existed for a convertible or open-top Supra, while a manual would depend on “market demand”.

But what Tada did confirm — as he has done previously — is that A90 will be build up its power and performance throughout its lifespan from the current 3.0-litre straight-six’s 250kW/500Nm. A hard-core GRMN version is widely expected and he wouldn’t rule it out.

“Maybe it will come,” he said.

Separately, Toyota Australia confirmed there were no “short to medium term” plans for a cheaper 2.0-litre turbo-petrol version of the Supra to join the local line-up either.

That means there are about 300 Supras that will be delivered to Aussie buyers between now and July 2020. About 200 of them have already been accounted for via two online ballots, with the balance to be allocated for on September 25.

More than 80 per cent of orders so far have been for the higher-spec GTS, with Nurburg Matt Grey and Monza Red being by far the most popular paint colours.

The born-again Toyota Supra is priced from $84,900 plus on-road costs for the entry-level GT version, rising to $94,900 for the GTS.

Watch this space for our first Australian review of the new Supra, this Thursday (September 5).

 

[BrettS]

So the new 4series is using a b58 with a mild 48v hybrid system, what’s the chances this will come in future Supras.

 

[BrettS]

Supra already is mild hybrid with the Stop/Start system...

Is that really what they consider a hybrid?

 

[supraboi]

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/a9...es-new-variants-coming-whats-next.1791/page-2

BMW lifecycle approach does apply to the Supra.

The current model lineup is going to continue until June 2022. In July 2022, the new facelifted version will start production. Right now it seems the facelift is not going to significantly change the hardware: worldwide, there will still be four models like today (two B48s and two B58s), but they will likely use refreshed versions of the same engines, with the US market getting two models out of four with the higher spec B48 and B58. I can't say yet what performance the engine updates will bring but judging from recent history, the improvements will be small. However, we should expect the refresh to add the 48V electrical system, which is known to provide a small performance bump on its own.

There will be no major updates and no new models before July 2022. Some tuning, maybe creature comforts - sure, just to keep things fresh. But that's all.

 

[XtremeMaC]

Is that really what they consider a hybrid?

Many different hybrids exists, series/parallel, micro, mild, full..
Correction. Stop/start is micro hybrid not mild..
Mild means it would get some electrical motor boost... Sorry about that..

 

[gdi2290]

I 100% want this in a supra but at the same time i know i most likely won't happen unless this was made with help from toyota. BMW did want some of toyotas tech since Tesla is eating up their market. The electric super charger will help at the low end while letting us have larger turbos for the highend and as they mention the hard start/stop transitions will disappear

 

[KahnBB6]

I would not at all be surprised if a mild hybrid Supra shows up sometime in the A90 lifecycle but the one wrench that might be in this is Tetsuya Tada's own insistence that this generation of the Supra will not come in a hybrid trim.

Things could change of course since they're so tied to BMW's powertrain cycles but Toyota/Tada/Akio might opt not to go this route until the A100 generation.

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