Magna Steyr Supra
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The OP said his turbine failed, not the compressor. If it was heat issue on the compressor side, as people suggest to upgrade to aftermarket intake intercooler, how come that didn't fail?
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Thanks everyone for the info. The shop is convinced this was a defective turbine. They have it all hooked up with the new turbo and verified the coolant flows properly.The route I would verify as well, is to see if the cooling of the turbo perhaps failed.
Thanks.
Last weekend, by removing the front bumper and all radiators, we figured everything out:
So I am going to list it up here, which may provide other people as well with useful information.
In our front bumper, we have '3 main hole section' when standing in front of the car.
- Left
- Center
- Right
Below a picture of the bumper, when its detached, where you can clearly see these sections:
When looking at it from the front of the car (sorry, picture is a little bit dark):
The left and right main sections, are actually divided in lets say '3 sub-sections':
- The outer section, is used for airflow towards the air-to-water radiator
- The center section, is used for airflow towards the brake rotors
- The inner section, is used for airflow towards the components that sit behind the main center section
You can see it clearly in this picture:
When looking from it on the other side, you notice the small radiator and the part that lets the air flow to the brake rotor:
Now back to our main section again... in the main center section, we have 3 coolers present. The are in the following order when looking at them from the front:
- First, we have the transmission cooler
- Second, we have the heat exchanger
- Third, we have our engine main radiator
- And behind the engine main radiator, sits our engine fan
On the pictures below, you see in black... the CSF transmission cooler and behind it the CSF heat exchanger:
When looking from the engine bay's top perspective (standard oem stuff), you notice the heat exchanger, the engine radiator and the engine cooling fan:
Ok, so now that we know how our front bumper is dividing the airflow towards the several (sub)-sections, we can list up what each component is doing
Starting with the main center section, we have the following:
- The transmission cooler, is off course cooling our automatic transmission
- The main engine radiator, is there cool the water which flows through our engine (keeping the engine itself cool)
- The heat exchanger has actually two purposes:
- Its main purpose is to cool the water coming from our intake manifold (it has the integrated chargeair-to-water cooled intercooler)
- Its side purpose is to also keep the water cool, used in our AC (AirConditioning) unit. Yes that's right, the heat exchanger also makes sure... that we have cold air in our car
On our right section (when standing in front of the car), we have the following:
- The small radiator, which cools the water towards our turbo
And finally on the left section (when standing in front of the car), we have the following:
- The small radiator, which serves as the auxiliary engine radiator. Yes it assists the main engine raditor, to cool the water which flows through our engine
Just be to clear, the main engine radiator and both small radiators, are making use of the same water circuit. On the picture of the engine bay, you see:
- on the left... that the small radiator connects directly in the main engine radiators circuit
- on the right... the hose going towards the radiator on the right
- in the center we have a T-section. This is because both of them are using the same circuit. But the left hose of the T-section, is going to an electric water pump (for our turbo). The right goes to the small radiator on the right. The top connects to the main circuit.
The reason why I refer to it as the electric pump for the turbo, is because the water will flow mostly from the radiator on the driver side (least resistance path).
We have two water circuits on our Supra (so we also have two expansions)
- The small circuit is used for the water of the heat exchanger
- The big circuit is used for the water for all the other radiators
On the picture below, the top one is the filler for the smaller circuit, the bottom one is the filler for the big circuit:
As extra information:
- The big filler has a sensor inside, to check for 'low coolant level'. To prevent that the engine would not cool in case of low coolant
- The small filler does not have a sensor. The ECU just relies on the IAT temperatures and adjust timings (when you have low coolant in that circuit, there will be no alert triggered on the screen in your car)
To keep the water flowing, we have 3 water pumps on our Supra:
- A mechanical one, which flows the water for cooling the engine
- An electric water pump, which flows the water for our turbo (right side radiator when standing in front of the car)
- An electric water pump, which flows the water for our intake manifold (heat exchanger). Also referred to as the EWP CharegeAir in the logs
For reference, the ChargeAir Electric WaterPump looks like this (I upgraded mine for a higher flowing one, for testing purposes):
Hope it clarifies a little bit our entire cooling system on the Supra, as it did for me
Let me know how well it worksthanks @geert.bieseman for the write up on the cooling system, very helpful, deserves its own thread. way better than random regurgitation of forum spiel without actual understanding of the topic.
using your analysis, I may block off my passenger side rad ducting to reduce drag during cooler events.
Just for information for the community:The OP said his turbine failed, not the compressor. If it was heat issue on the compressor side, as people suggest to upgrade to aftermarket intake intercooler, how come that didn't fail?
You're welcome.OH thanks! ton of great info
Let us know if the higher flowing pump has any gains?
Love your whole explanation and your summary above! @geert.biesemanAs you know by now through the explanation, both the intercooler and heat exchanger, work in tandem. You can't exclude one from another... they work together.
So fitting a big ass intake manifold, will result in a bigger surface to cool the charge air. However if the heat exchanger is not up to the task to also cool down the coolant water of that intercooler... over time, the system will start heat soaking.
The same applies to the heat exchanger. You can fit as huge heat eschanger to keep the temperature of the coolant water of the intercooler as low as possible, if the intercooler does not have to surface volume to dispeat that heat of the charge air... over time the system will start heat soaking.
Again, both are required. Which one do you require to upgrade first... it will depend on what you do with the car and under which conditions. In my personal opinion, I would first upgrade the heat exchanger, when you daily your car or take it for a 'spiritual driving'.
I definitely don't agree with this statement as blanketly as you do. There are different applications, and some definitely do not require a bigger heat exchanger to keep the manifold cool.Again, both are required.
LOL. Thanks to you, Geert, and all the Supra track rats, I'm seriously doubting I'll be needing either for my little weekend track events. I'll soon find out.... But these in depth explanations are incredibly helpful (and fun as shit) for me learning more about my new favorite carI definitely don't agree with this statement as blanketly as you do. There are different applications, and some definitely do not require a bigger heat exchanger to keep the manifold cool.