Brake Pad Discussion - Don't take R1 Ceramic to track day!

nibble

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** Don't take R1 concept Ceramic to track day! **

I want to start a thread to discuss brake pad that are affordable, reliable, & performs well in track day.

I was using Stock brake pad for almost 10 months (~ 20 track days) without issue until brake pad wear sensor went off. until then it was was fine and brought me back home from 2 hour trip. So I know I can trust stock brake pads. Since then, I've been using Hawk DTC-60. it's a "track only" pad and has a great stopping power. noise and dust is expected as this is track pads but what surprised me is wear on OEM brake rotor. It does wear out OEM rotor fast. past weekend, I took the R1 ceramic to Lime Rock Park. I used for street and didn't want to use track pads on the street but did not have time to switch it over to DTC-60. oh... boy... It was down right scary as brake won't stop at turn 1! I could not engage ABS to know the threshold braking point no matter how much I stepped on the brake. So no threshold braking for me for entire 2 days! took some fun out of it but I managed to squeeze out fun by hitching a ride with other instructors and sharing information. So all was not lost. After comparing the time, R1 Concept Ceramic would been full second or more slower than worn out OEM. So it would've been so much slower compare to DTC-60 which was expected but how much braking power it would yield was shocking. After that experience, I lost full confidence even on street and may not use it at all..

So here are my summary:

OEM : Good overall. works well with OEM rotor.

Hawk DTC-60 : Very good Braking power - better than OEM. More dust and harsh on the rotor.

R1 Concept Ceramic : Poor braking power. DO NOT take it to track! dust on track driving is as much as OEM.

Once I'm done with DTC-60, I may try Hawk HPS or HP+. post if you have any experience with other brake pads as well as options for rear brake pads.
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type-964

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Subbed for more reviews. Been wondering what you track rats are having good experience with.
 

felcrum

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I've been exploring options for track day pads. Subbed.
 

Mark5825

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Counterspace Garage has multiple pads to match for specific applications. I've been running C2/C11 for track with 100-200 TW tires (very dusty, slight noise but still do run daily at times). These blow away stock pads.

Daily (no dust) Powerstop z26.
 
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nibble

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Counterspace Garage has multiple pads to match for specific applications. I've been running C2/C11 for track with 100-200 TW tires (very dusty, slight noise but still do run daily at times). These blow away stock pads.

Daily (no dust) Powerstop z26.
Good find.. but $590 F & $390 R, it's pricy, isn't it?
 
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nibble

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Carbotech / G-LOC are another good choices. They are same compound - history is long on this topic. Following are part #, looks like.

Front : CT78772-F-XP10 $331.00
Rear : CT78772-RP-XP10 $238.00

last digits after "-" is compound so it may have different price for different compound.
 

gcmak

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Save your labor and everyone's ears and avoid the HP+ pads. While I don't know anyone who has tried them on a Supra, 100% of cars (including one of my own) that I've seen with that pad make the worst squealing sounds that announce your impending arrival 3 city blocks away.

As you experienced - major brake fade - you just cannot and should not cheap out on brakes. Brakes and tires ruin more track days than almost anything else; resulting in less fun (at best) or a total loss and hospitalization/death (at worst).

Here's the thing, motorsport just isn't cheap and its especially not cheap the heavier and more powerful the vehicle is - you want cheap consumables, Miata/86 is the way to go.

I'm currently running CSG CP pads on all 4 corners with tires still above 200TW. These have been phenomenal pads for daily and for HPDE use. They're incredibly expensive, yes, but they dust less than the brembo pads, easier to clean the dust, and the pads just take a heck of a lot of abuse and don't wear...plus they have good on track feel/consistency. So the savings in labor/time overall, justify the cost to me.

I will have to upgrade to the C2/C11 pads down the road once i switch to 200tw tires as I've found the limits of the CP pads even at Laguna on 300TW tires driving at my pace. But having tried other pads, I'm a believer in genuinely good pads that last a very long time.
 

Loco38SUP

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I have a full set (front + rear) OEM brake pads if someone needs them for track use. They have 2K miles without and track days. Let me know.

-RJM
 
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nibble

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On other note, I've seen one of my student - who is a racer in AER - using HP+ and I did not hear any noise. wear of rotors after trackdays were pretty good. however, we are strictly talking about track use so noise or dust is not a big concern but performance is. In my opinion, Hawk DTC-60 shortened breaking distance by 20~30% compare to stock pad and had reasonable price around $200 for front and I still have 70% left after about 10 track days. So it does have some longevity. I used Carbotech & G-LOC on S2000 and it was phenomenal pads (XP8 & 10). It is pricier than hawk but was better.

I'm still not convinced of spending $1,000 on brake pads to have fun at track... Here's the reason. It's true that I was shocked by how poorly R1 concept performed on track. However, I was able to adjust immediately and tried to get most out of the setup at the time. So I had a great time trying to find how much speed I can carry into corners despite lacking braking power. Did I wish I had my normal track pads? Sure I did. Was the weekend ruined? absolutely not. Will I have more fun if I had $1,000 brake pad setup compare to $600? Debatable. For me, probably not much.. It was a good experience for me, overall. BTW, good information. at least we know options are there if someone wants to explore it.

back to pad performance discussion. ;)

on longevity, stock pads lasted 20+ trackdays for me. will report on DTC-60, once I'm done with it. ;)
 

gcmak

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On other note, I've seen one of my student - who is a racer in AER - using HP+ and I did not hear any noise. wear of rotors after trackdays were pretty good. however, we are strictly talking about track use so noise or dust is not a big concern but performance is. In my opinion, Hawk DTC-60 shortened breaking distance by 20~30% compare to stock pad and had reasonable price around $200 for front and I still have 70% left after about 10 track days. So it does have some longevity. I used Carbotech & G-LOC on S2000 and it was phenomenal pads (XP8 & 10). It is pricier than hawk but was better.

I'm still not convinced of spending $1,000 on brake pads to have fun at track... Here's the reason. It's true that I was shocked by how poorly R1 concept performed on track. However, I was able to adjust immediately and tried to get most out of the setup at the time. So I had a great time trying to find how much speed I can carry into corners despite lacking braking power. Did I wish I had my normal track pads? Sure I did. Was the weekend ruined? absolutely not. Will I have more fun if I had $1,000 brake pad setup compare to $600? Debatable. For me, probably not much.. It was a good experience for me, overall. BTW, good information. at least we know options are there if someone wants to explore it.

back to pad performance discussion. ;)

on longevity, stock pads lasted 20+ trackdays for me. will report on DTC-60, once I'm done with it. ;)
Fair enough - to each their own and we're also faced with different variables as we're not the same driver nor are we going to the same track events. Just more data points to consider. My fear with some pads is, while you're managing the pads, sometimes in those situations they'll just fail because they're being used well beyond their intended purpose, and that's when you won't have a good day. It's not a made up story and is well documented among people who participate in HPDE and related motorsport. Be safe, have fun.
 

Lordhowe

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Nibble, when you run the front DTC60's, what are you using for the rears? Stock pads?

On a similar note - I'm having Robin from Girodisc make me a set of titanium shims (f/r) which I should be receiving soon. I have used them in all of my previous cars to isolate the heat from the pads to the calipers. For me, it helped a lot with brake fade. If anyone is interested in learning more, PM me.
 
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