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Discussion in 'General Supra Topics' started by Jabba, Jan 14, 2019.
^^^^ Yup SW was the EndGame ha ha and he did it with a Getrag box.
I'm annoyed with Chris Harris' review of the car.
He states it's a very good car, but then goes on to berate it as being too bmw.
If it's a good car, then judge it as being so - being underpinned by BMW doesn't alter that.
Chris Harris is one of the biggest BMW fanatics out there. So for him to berate it as being too BMW should have some validity that Toyota didn't try hard enough therefore not being that impressed.
Hah, I get you do not like the car, and I usually respect your arguments, but that has got to be the most flawed thing you have said.
If he were a BMW fanatic, of course he would dislike the Supra. The Z4 gets only mediocre reviews and while the Supras are very positive.
I think it pains him too much to admit the Supra is better so he would rather berate the car because it was co-developed.
I'm holding all judgement until I drive the thing. He has tremendous respect for Japanese cars and Supra. I've underlined his words to help you understand that what Toyota did with a Legend like the Supra wasn't a good thing. Am I flawed because I agree with him? I would be singing the same song if Porsche decided to partner up with Honda/Nissan/Kia/Audi/Whoever to resurrect the 928/944.
And there it is – I’ve just described Toyota’s halo sports car, its statement of DNA, in terms of how it fits into the global BMW chassis philosophy. And I’m sorry, but as a car enthusiast, that feels all kinds of wrong. Subjected to the Pepsi Challenge, I’d say this was a BMW. It sounds like one, it drives like one – all of the contact points bar the seats are from Germany. I’ll tell you why that matters.
It matters because Japanese motor cars have something indescribably appealing about them. The sense that they’ve been wrought through a combination of a brain-frazzling rigour that most people would find totally pointless and also simultaneously touched by some level of creative madness. Rigorous madness; that’s Japanese sports cars. No other nation does it quite the same way, and when you apply a badge that emanates from the very epicentre of that philosophy to a very good sports car that offers literally zero trace of that fascinating genetic lineage, it just feels wrong.
Now it might just be that the people Toyota wants to buy the Supra don’t care about heritage or the narrowness of the comeback window. And if that’s the case, Toyota has been very clever and snuck one under the radar. And saved a chunk of cash. But in a world of Alpines and Caymans and M2 Competitions – cars whose identities are hewn from the foundation stones of the company headquarters – I think it’s nothing short of a tragedy.
This was Toyota’s opportunity to sign off from the petrol generation with a statement of what it stands for. Instead it has given us a very competent, restyled BMW. It could also have just not called it a Supra, which would have appeased most of us geeks and saved me writing this 1,500 word rant. Me? I’d have an Alpine over this eight days of the week.
And therein lies my issue with his statements. All of what he says is a baseless accusation towards the engineers and designers who poured the last several years into this car. I feel it is an embarrassment that Chris Harris, a journalist I once respected for his driving abilities, has allowed his biased and incomplete view of the development process to cloud his judgement on the car.
Just read what he says, he clearly has it out for the car. Even before he had seen it, we was already making negative comments about it on social media. I would also note that he does often slander Japaneses vehicles. The only one I can recall he liked was the FR-S.
He claims that the car fits into the chassis philosophy of BMW. I would like you to find me one performance BMW that rides as well as the Supra. All the M models I have driven (I should mention I have experience with almost every BMW made in the past decade) have ridden like utter crap. MY M3 rode like absolute crap even with the adaptive suspension.
If it was truly like the BMW's it would shake your teeth out, the steering would be numb and heavy, the car would oversteer at the mention of a corner, and the car would overpower the tires with a twitch of the toe. We would not have even had this conversation. I would say all these impressive advancements are because Toyota and it's own engineers figured out an immensely impressive formula for the car.
So tell me, what did Toyota do exactly that was so wrong? We get a Supra with a reasonable price, impressive performance, and a great driving experience. It has a engine that likely has very good tuning potential. It so far has proved reliable in racing, achieving no breakdowns in a 24 hour endurance race while the other true "Toyota" suffered numerous breakdowns. Most every journalist save for a few have loved it or at minimum respected it.
Tell me then, how is it a bad thing that Toyota teamed up with BMW? Toyota did not need to build the car, it is already the most successful car company in the world, so the fact they did it at all is a miracle.
Porsche has a chance they will make the 928 come back as a Panamera variant, but would that truly make you happy? The 928 was once the epitome of Porsche, the no holds barred sports/GT car of the future. Now it will just be an expensive money-grab, a cut rate Continental GT. The 944 is never coming back, it is now the Cayman, an awesome car, that has lost multiple times to our new Austrian-Japanese mutt.
I make no statements towards you or your personal character, however, your statement is truly flawed.
This is typical Chris Harris' feedback and personality though. Jeremy Clarkson and company used to rag on Japanese cars so can you really take anything they say personal? It's what they do. Their job is to review the car and whether you like it or not, it's their view.
Which engineers that poured the last several years into the car are you referring to; BMW or Toyota? This is their job, this is what they get paid to do. Screw the pity party.
I don't have much seat time on M cars except from doing the M Track Days at Thermal. I thought the M2 and M3 were an absolute blast to drive around the track. I would never buy one though.
IMO, what Toyota did wrong was that MKV doesn't have that WOW factor. It has a decent factor but doesn't make a statement. I wanted that same passion, that same attention to detail, that take on anybody and everybody. This is what the MKIV had. I want to be able to park it, walk away, look back and say "Damn, that's sexy".
Impressive performance, sure, I'll acknowledge that since they downplayed the actual numbers. Great driving experience: TBD until you or I get to drive one, good tuning potential: still TBD since aftermarket support is still in development.
Toyota needed to build a car to satisfy the Three brothers' of sports cars wish that Akio Toyoda wanted.
That's fine. At least it's being built by Porsche and they didn't go to someone else to help build them a car. The Cayman lost multiple times to the mutt? Haha, Autocar review picked the Supra b/c it's comfortable for a daily. The MT review was against a 718 base 4cyl and barely edged out the Supra.
Zero to 60 mph: 3.9, 4.0, 4.1 seconds—Supra, M2, Cayman.
Quarter mile: 12.4 seconds at 114.7 mph, 12.5 seconds at 111.2 mph, 12.6 seconds at 110.3 mph—M2, Supra, Cayman.
Skidpad: 1.01 g, 1.01 g, 1.03 g—Supra, M2, Cayman.
Figure eight: 24.0 seconds at 0.83 g, 24.0 second at 0.81 g, 24.1 seconds at 0.82 g—Supra, Cayman, M2.
Hold up, the A80 was considered "ugly", "bloated", or "weird" looking when it came out here in the US back in the 90s. Not many were attracted to its polarizing looks at the time. I think the same could be said of this new Supra. The looks are polarizing. I know for sure, many years after the A80 left the US in 98', people were starting to come around to its looks. Especially after FnF movie. It was until many years had passed that the majority would say, "damn, that's sexy" about the A80 supra.
A stock a80 doesn't move me even today.
And I stood in front of that yellow a90 and I thought wow, this car looks mind blowing for that price tag.
I agree, I can appreciate the way the Supra looks but it is still not a “beautiful” car to me. Purposeful and aggressive yes, but beautiful? Maybe not so much.
I agree with you in everything and even Chris Harris. But in his defense, he loves the 86, LFA, GSF, NSX (both new and old), and old classics like the Datsun’s, RX7’s, etc. stated it many times.
He posts about it on his Instagram, and picked the GSF over that bloated/soulless crap f10 M5.
Carwow did it!
He has ZERO respect for Japanese cars and the Supra. That douchebag don't know shit about the essence of a Toyota sports car and he acted like a total bitch in his reviews. Begging people not to listen to Toyota? Seriously? How motherfucking stupid is that? I'm so happy the internet melted him the way they did. He needs to fuck off.
By the way, Clarkson actually has a sense of humour and doesn't just unnecessarily shit on cars because it isn't his typical Porsche, Ferrari, BMW or Aston Martin. Look at his Twitter and how much he sucks Aston Martin's fat cock but literally not too long before that he DRAGS the Supra. He's an idiot. Period. But regarding Clarkson, he jokes about cars, roasts them sometimes, but always gives an honest review. His review of the RC F was quite harsh, and maybe unjustified if you look at it from certain points of view, but he's 100% correct about the RC F. Look at his reviews of the LFA, GT86, Supra, and the GS F. He fucking gets it, and has a good sense of humour to boot. He isn't a blithering idiot like Harris. For me, Matt LeBlanc was SOO MUCH better than that drift-happy cuck. I found him enjoyable, smart and actually fun to watch. Shame he left, he was my definite favorite from the new Top Gear.
You sound like someone who never saw Clarkson review a Jaguar.
I've watched his reviews on Jaguars. He shits on them for being unreliable pieces of shit but always loves how they have a lot of personality. An example of one his reviews where he's like this is the XJ.