Death of ICE cars

[B58_ hwAyaq]

They way I see it (and I’m generalizing):

• ICE cars are currently the best they’ve been in the history of time
• EVs are currently the worst they’ll ever be

I’m just enjoying ICE while we can and will hop into EVs when I have to.

I’m in no rush to adopt.

 

[Evolution]

As boring as my electric car is, I love the cost to operate it, which is $0. I only charge it at home and last months electricity bill was -$35. That -$35 will go towards a half tank of gas for the Supra haha.

 

[gixxersixxerman]

As boring as my electric car is, I love the cost to operate it, which is $0. I only charge it at home and last months electricity bill was -$35. That -$35 will go towards a half tank of gas for the Supra haha.

That was my fathers experience with his EV6. They have solar that at the time was based off much higher usage and had solar installed that was far bigger then what him and my mother needed when it was just the 2 of them. He still has a credit with the electric company they paid out when he left, though it was a lot less after he got the EV6.

Now he lives in southern GA and finding it's not as convenient as in SoCal. We went on a 3 hour trip when I went to visit them from the Savannah area to Andersonville to check out the Civil War POW camp and they didn't have any chargers there to recharge while visiting (we knew this ahead and took their regular car. In Cali that would've been a given. So, I can see why people that don't have the infrastructure that Cali has right now could see the hassle in it. There are really no close by chargers to him (he brought his from their old house and had it wired right up first thing when he moved to GA) and the ones that are dont seem to work or have very low charge rates, Tesla is in the process of converting their chargers to run both tesla and non-tesla connections now so that will help.

He is actually thinking of shipping it back to the west coast to sell it here, because no one wants them on the east coast. His old dealership he has bought all his KIA's from offered 40k for it, local offered 28k. Private Party we should easy get 45-50k in Cali, probably couldnt pay anyone to take it outside Atlanta in GA lol

 

[lucky phil]

If the death of the ICE car worries you just watch this. It aint going to happen any time soon despite what loony left "save the planet" types want and the spineless politicians acquiesce too.

Phil

 

[MKV2021]

They way I see it (and I’m generalizing):

• ICE cars are currently the best they’ve been in the history of time
• EVs are currently the worst they’ll ever be

I’m just enjoying ICE while we can and will hop into EVs when I have to.

I’m in no rush to adopt.

Completely agree. It took ICE vehicles a very long time to get as good as they are now, but the pace of progress on electric cars will be far more rapid. I'd totally rock one of the upcoming Priuses, but only as a DD.

 

[kaj]

I'm not going to worry about losing internal combustion engines anytime soon. At least not in my lifetime.

 

[FLtrackdays]

As boring as my electric car is, I love the cost to operate it, which is $0. I only charge it at home and last months electricity bill was -$35. That -$35 will go towards a half tank of gas for the Supra haha.

Yeah we definitely don’t have the kickbacks you do. I would take advantage of that as well. Especially as a taxpayer. Why not get what you’re already paying for (in taxes there) . Mama didn’t raise no fool in you!

I can only guess but think Texas stands out as in the same situation as us Floridians. No income tax or incentives to plug in. It just doesn’t make $ense, for us at least. Great story @gixxersixxerman of real world experience in GA. The infrastructure isn’t cheap. Not to mention the drain on the grid to keep our homes cool and cars charged if/when forced to switch.

This really is a massive costly undertaking. I’m glad the industry and peeps like @decodeddiesel are looking at other sources. Kudos to you brother!

 

[FLtrackdays]

If the death of the ICE car worries you just watch this. It aint going to happen any time soon despite what loony left "save the planet" types want and the spineless politicians acquiesce too.

Phil

Brilliant video Phil! All intelligent views are worth considering instead of closing our eyes & ears and wishing/hoping for the best…

 

[lucky phil]

The future will be some sort of mix between ICE and electric cars if we can just listen to some logical, intelligent, factual, rational information instead of loony teenagers.

Phil

 

[KahnBB6]

The "loony teenagers" you're referring to aren't off in their strong concerns about climate change and warming due to CO2 concentration in the atmosphere at its current rate.

We can ignore that entirely and let it get much harder in coming decades than it already will be or we can take some actions to lessen that blow and have a somewhat easier time of it.

....

Look... ALL of us here love great and fun ICE cars. I wouldn't own, have built and regularly drive the 2JZ-GTE powered car in my signature/profile if not. And I wouldn't be in the market specifically for a GR as a new daily driver alongside it if not.

I cheer on both the very best of the last great ICEs as well as monitor not quite yet perfected new BEV and hydrogen fueled powertrain technology which will be more predominant later.

The shift to cars that don't emit CO2 while driving (or in the case of CO2 neutral synthetic fuels don't emit any more CO2 than is captured to produce it) is necessary if you want to have a planet that is still pretty much livable as we are used to. That's just the writing on the wall.

However... consider that the 2035 and beyond ban on the sale of NEW cars that use gasoline isn't going to take away the fun and cool ICEs that are already in existence right at that point. Hopefully some hydrogen combustion powered brand new fun machines from 2035+ in addition to BEVs will also be a thing and synthetic fuel for cars that take 91+ octane premium gasoline will also definitely be a thing by then.

Also, charging infrastructure currently is sparse and not always reliable and therefore in 2023 sucks... but that won't always be the case. And it's the same with battery cell technology and what a "high performance" electric car is in 2023 versus what it will be when that technology and it limitations will be an undesirable thing of the past.

Mining for lithium and cobalt for batteries right now isn't a great proposition BY 2035.... but it's all these companies can do to scale up pack production with current inferior lithium ion technology right now. 12 years from now when all of this will truly hit the EV technology will be far better than it is today and won't limit you to buying a rich person's novelty electric car.

All manufacturers and battery suppliers that have investment in new technologies want to get away from the heavy mining that lithium ion cells require today. For the moment none of them have any choice to get new EVs on sale. But eventually lithium-ion EVs, unless you convert an old one to a newer type battery pack, will be undesirable.

And also, because I feel the cold and boring as hell Tesla example isn't for everyone, other companies will have stepped up by that time to find clever ways to re-inject fun, engagement and driver involvement back into the vehicle models that those of us on this forum care about the most. Different? Well yes... but I wholeheartedly reject the notion that just because a new car is electric that it must be a boring as hell crossover with an interior that feels like a sterile waiting room and which is dominated by touchscreens.

Or that have no interesting non-fake sound. I am given hope by Dodge's original (not revised) Charger Daytona EV amplified motor noise using a sound chamber tube and by Ferrari's similar approach with their future vehicle designs still in the research phase.

...

Bottom line... yes, we will have very different and superior EVs before and especially by 2035 but no that doesn't mean we'll have no ICE vehicles on the road. The fuel might be more expensive per gallon eventually but there will be nothing stopping us from continuing to enjoy them.

And there is also hydrogen which will progress as well in production, refueling infrastructure and in vehicles with H2 fuel cell stacks. I think that will become the new diesel alternative mostly for larger rigs and industrial machines where tight packaging constraints are not an issue but I'm sure we're going to see some HCV sportscars and even some H2 internal combustion sportscars as well.

It will be a mix of all of these things in several years.

And production of the hydrogen, synthetic fuel and general electric grid power is going to shift into less carbon emitting intense processes as well.

I am expecting electric vehicles in general to get a lot better but I am also expecting the ones that those of us on this forum care about also getting a LOT better and more in line with engaging aspects that we like in fun performance vehicles.

And I am also still expecting that the old and currently new and 2034 and older special ICE's will still be enjoyed and used for a long time to come. Just maybe not as our main vehicles by that point in time. But we'll still use and enjoy the hell out of them.

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The aspects of all this which I am MOST concerned about is the manufacturer obsession with self driving, moving away from driver-centric cars that are built FOR driver engagement and fun (regardless of powertrain) and also the manufacturer obsession with locking out hardware based features and capabilities in cars sold to customers behind an a la carte or packaged feature set subscription paywall.

Now all of THAT has ZERO to do with decarbonization of the atmosphere. All of that is just BS greed pure and simple that is only of benefit to the manufacturers who choose to do it. And it goes hand in hand with locking out 3rd party vehicle tuners/modifiers and with their fight against Right To Repair legislation in each state.

Those are things that ALL car enthusiasts need to get behind and unite together over to push back against now at every turn. It's already a thing with ICE vehicles and will only continue into an era where more electric than combustion vehicles are on the road.

Subscription services for built in hardware capabilities and features (including what max horsepower and torque can be safely achieved) need to be rejected over and over starting NOW.

Right To Repair (and also your right to modify your own purchased hardware) legislation needs to be supported NOW.

 

[FLtrackdays]

It will be a mix of all of these things in several years.

That sir is my biggest concern. I hope you are right!

You are more passionate than me about this. Are you in the industry? If so, make it happen . Relying on only one transportation energy source would be ludicrous .

 

[RenRed2]

The world and industry changed to go from horses to cars and this will happen for ICE to electric. Changes will be made and we will adapt as drivers and exploit what is offered to have fun. The last thing Im worried about is all this E transport change. The world does not stay static and thats a simple fact. The more you try to hold onto what is slipping away the more painful the change. I love ICE cars. I will make E work for me and enjoy it.

 

[KahnBB6]

That sir is my biggest concern. I hope you are right!

You are more passionate than me about this. Are you in the industry? If so, make it happen . Relying on only one transportation energy source would be ludicrous .

I'm just an enthusiast like you who loves special and fun cars and has for a long time. I'm not in the auto industry. I just know what I like in cars and read a lot of auto industry and technology news to keep myself informed.

A shift away from traditional gasoline and diesel fuels is inevitable. Synthetic fuel should be a thing as well but I think the price point per gallon will not be as inexpensive as we're currently used to. But it will be there.

So as we move into a predominance of electric vehicles I'm just very passionate about enthusiast type cars that those of us on this forum and many others love staying alive and remaining as engaging and fun as they possibly can be. So the powertrain changes.... okay, fine... now *how* will that new powertrain be implemented and calibrated to make it fun to use? *How* will the chassis and styling of the cars be designed to keep the passion and fun alive? *How* will the interior remain driver-centric?

All the other larger technology and infrastructure realities and concerns are going to be overcome one way or another.

I know that there are industry engineers who also feel this way about keeping storied enthusiast car nameplates alive and well in the best possible ways amidst this huge shift.

And it is not possible for gasoline car use to suddenly go to zero in 2035 so that is where the general overlap will come in with traditional fuel and synthetic fuel. Although I do think that it will become more and more niche over time (for folks like us? Think of the weekend fun car paradigm and just apply that to gasoline ICE cars. That's my guess).

The world and industry changed to go from horses to cars and this will happen for ICE to electric. Changes will be made and we will adapt as drivers and exploit what is offered to have fun. The last thing Im worried about is all this E transport change. The world does not stay static and thats a simple fact. The more you try to hold onto what is slipping away the more painful the change. I love ICE cars. I will make E work for me and enjoy it.

Very well said. I agree. We as driving enthusiasts will adapt and find what is fun in the new EV products, exploit and/or modify as needed and have fun with them.

The world indeed does not stay static. Maybe it just lingers a bit from one technological changeover to another before a big push or explosion of technology creates the next big phase.

 

[mmspider]

As boring as my electric car is, I love the cost to operate it, which is $0. I only charge it at home and last months electricity bill was -$35. That -$35 will go towards a half tank of gas for the Supra haha.

I do think cheap electric power for cars is a short term thing though. The world is moving to electric to reduce emissions and use more renewable energy. I would bet there will be a day where it cost more to charge a car than it was to fill up gas.

 

[mmspider]

The world and industry changed to go from horses to cars and this will happen for ICE to electric. Changes will be made and we will adapt as drivers and exploit what is offered to have fun. The last thing Im worried about is all this E transport change. The world does not stay static and thats a simple fact. The more you try to hold onto what is slipping away the more painful the change. I love ICE cars. I will make E work for me and enjoy it.

I never liked the horse analogy when talking about EVs. EVs are pretty much the exact same thing as ICE cars besides how you fill them up. They look the same, drive the same, and any new tech that can be added to a EV can also be added to a ICE car.