How will the 86 and Supra MKV affect each other?

Discussion in 'General Supra Topics' started by FRS-Man, Jan 27, 2015.

  1. FRS-Man

    FRS-Man Well-Known Member

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    Interesting take by this author on the FR-S sales downward trend.

    http://blog.caranddriver.com/why-sc...the-life-and-times-of-an-ultra-niche-product/

    Why Scion FR-S Sales Have Plunged: The Life and Times of an Ultra-Niche Product

    When Toyota announced it was going to sell a lightweight, rear-drive sports car—and that it was sending a version to the U.S. badged as a Scion—there was a swell of enthusiast, uh, enthusiasm. Anticipation for the car (and its Subaru-badged sibling, the BRZ) ran high, reaching a fever pitch when the car went on sale in the summer of 2012. Since then, however, interest has cooled and sales have taken a nosedive. And you can thank the very same people who were amped up for the coupe in the first place.

    Let’s take a look at the numbers, shall we? In 2012, Scion moved 11,417 FR-S models in just six full months of sales, and that number jumped to 18,327 for the full calendar-year 2013. Things took a turn last year, however, with sales falling by 23 percent to 14,062 units. (For comparison, here are the yearly totals for the Subaru BRZ: 4144 in 2012, 8087 in 2013, and 7504 in 2014.) The Scion’s best month to date was its first two full fortnights on sale, with 2684 sold in June 2012. Since then, sales followed a gentle seasonal up-down-up path familiar to sporty, rear-drive two-doors, with interest picking up in the summer months and waning in the winter. But in general, sales have declined. Last month, Scion sold just 834 examples against 1495 in December 2012 and 1029 in December 2013.

    Credit the same buyers who furiously fired off excited “My new FR-S!” posts in enthusiast forums back in 2012, credit the drift scene, credit the basic goodness of the FR-S. All of them essentially neutered sales because, well, most anyone who lusted after the car has already bought one. You can’t sell the same people the same new car year over year over year. Consider the target buyer satiated and the well to be running dry. Given this—as well as the fact that Toyota is developing a different, higher-margin sports car in partnership with BMW—and it’s not shocking that rumors persist that say the car might not see a second generation.

    2015 Scion FR-S

    Now Scion’s relying on normal people to eat up the FR-S, and it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that anyone who isn’t familiar with the nuances of lift-throttle oversteer, precise steering, and an ultra-low center of gravity probably might prefer their affordable two-door jollies to take the form of a Honda Accord coupe or the refined new Ford Mustang.

    Don’t get us wrong, we love the FR-S, but the reasons for our affection are reasons an average car buyer might hate it. At just 2700–2800 pounds, the FR-S is commendably light, but part of its weight-saving regimen is a lower amount of sound-deadening materials that results in a distinct lack of daily-driver polish. The Subaru-designed 2.0-liter flat-four revs to a zingy 7500 rpm, but it’s as smooth as the top of a Lego at idle and sounds like a hive of bees after a burrito binge when you’re on throttle. And the suspension we’d describe as buttoned-down and athletic would simply be called “harsh” by those who think Ken Gushi is some kind of take-out menu appetizer.

    In a nutshell, the FR-S is a niche vehicle, and its sliding sales numbers seem to indicate that Scion might just be finding the limits of that niche. We’re endlessly happy that Toyota nutted up and built the thing—even as it had to know this slide was possible, if not inevitable—because an affordable yet highly focused, no-compromise machine for just driving is a wonderful thing, and few companies make cars like that anymore.

    Of course, don’t feel too bad for Toyota in this thing, as it has been able to share costs with Subaru, who engineered the chassis and assembles all versions of the car. (Toyota was largely responsible for styling and also lent the project its D4-S port and direct fuel-injection technology.) And there’s even a silver lining for us enthusiasts: FR-S interest may have peaked the day it went on sale, but with more than 43,000 of them on American roads so far (not including BRZs), cheap track cars are just around the corner. Start saving now for a few sets of R-comps and a cage.
     
  2. Supra93

    Supra93 Moderator
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    Tuerck'd Takes Down A Mountain In A 600-HP Scion FR-S: Video



    http://www.motorauthority.com/news/...-down-a-mountain-in-a-600-hp-scion-fr-s-video
     
  3. Supra93

    Supra93 Moderator
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    325HP Supercharged Subaru BRZ Driven on Angeles Crest



    http://www.carscoops.com/2015/01/325hp-supercharged-subaru-brz-driven-on.html
     
  4. Supra93

    Supra93 Moderator
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    NATS Extreme Toyota GT86 Has A Vent, A Door?

    nats-extreme-toyota-gt-86-01.jpg

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    nats-extreme-toyota-gt-86-05.jpg

    nats-extreme-toyota-gt-86-06.jpg

    nats-extreme-toyota-gt-86-07.jpg

    http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2015/01/nats-extreme-toyota-gt86-has-a-vent-a-door-.html
     
  5. Da Hmong

    Da Hmong Well-Known Member

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    Wonder how well the new Supra will sell compared to the FR-S. Any guesses?
     
  6. Supraman

    Supraman Well-Known Member

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    Maybe half the number of sales. Maybe a slight bit more. There will be a price gap and not many people can jump financially from a $25k car to a $55k+ car. So probably 1 FT1 to every 5 FRS I would say will be produced.

    Sales will be a lot better than a GTR and NSX if the price point stays $50-60k mark.
     
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  7. Levi

    Levi Well-Known Member

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    I just do not understand how stupid top management (refering to bean counters) so as analysts can be. There is a limited group of people that want a specific car, that is a niche product. When those people have bought the car they won't that is it, as nobody else wo is not in that segment group will buy it, and those that have the car will simply not buy a new one any time soon, unless they crashed it. Such cars have to be built as mass production cars, simple in terms of personalisation/configuration, but with a limited production number in mind over a reduced life-cycle, or with a a planned slow decrease in production capacity inorder to reduce costs. The traget segment has to be based on all potential buyers, and make up no more than 3% of that group in terms of production output.
     
  8. <TC OFF>

    <TC OFF> Well-Known Member

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    Really hope this doesn't affect the decision whether to make the Supra or not. Wish they'd just give us confirmation already or at least an update :banghead:
     
  9. FXuser

    FXuser Member

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    What I'm really asking is, will slumping 86 sales or even if Toyota killed off the 86 altogether, hurt or help the Supra?

    Help it since there will only be one sports car in the lineup? Hurt it because people will question Toyota's ability to offer a viable sports car that can compete in this market?

    .........


    Also a flip side question... will the introduction of the MKV hurt or help 86 sales?

    On one hand, I think an exciting halo car can only help bring more people into the dealerships and help sales of all their models, especially sports cars. On the other hand, the MKV may rob whatever interest is left for the 86?
     
  10. Craigy

    Craigy Well-Known Member

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    Two different markets. V6 Camry has about as much in common.

    86 doesn't even have a Toyota badge in the USA.

    As far as the Supra helping out 86, I don't know... did the GT-R help Nissan sell Z's? It would be a similar effect, but to a lesser extent.
     
  11. Supra93

    Supra93 Moderator
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    This happens with other niche products as well ;)

    Mazda MX-5 Miata
    2006:
    16,897
    2007: 15,075
    2008: 10,977
    2009: 7,917
    2010: 6,370
    2011: 5,674
    2012: 6,305
    2013: 5,780
    2014: 4,745

    Nissan Z
    2006:
    24,635
    2007: 18,957
    2008: 10,337
    2009: 13,117
    2010: 10,215
    2011: 7,328
    2012: 7,338
    2013: 6,561
    2014: 7,199

    Honda CR-Z
    2010:
    5,249
    2011: 11,330
    2012: 4,192
    2013: 4,550
    2014: 3,562


    BMW Z4
    2006:
    12,285
    2007: 10,097
    2008: 5,879
    2009: 3,523
    2010: 3,804
    2011: 3,479
    2012: 2,751
    2013: 2,480
    2014: 2,151
     
  12. Supra93

    Supra93 Moderator
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    I don't see why this is such a big deal. Other niche products have declining sales over the years as well. Example below.

    Mazda MX-5 Miata
    2006:
    16,897
    2007: 15,075
    2008: 10,977
    2009: 7,917
    2010: 6,370
    2011: 5,674
    2012: 6,305
    2013: 5,780
    2014: 4,745

    Nissan Z
    2006:
    24,635
    2007: 18,957
    2008: 10,337
    2009: 13,117
    2010: 10,215
    2011: 7,328
    2012: 7,338
    2013: 6,561
    2014: 7,199

    Honda CR-Z
    2010:
    5,249
    2011: 11,330
    2012: 4,192
    2013: 4,550
    2014: 3,562


    BMW Z4
    2006:
    12,285
    2007: 10,097
    2008: 5,879
    2009: 3,523
    2010: 3,804
    2011: 3,479
    2012: 2,751
    2013: 2,480
    2014: 2,151
     
  13. Craigy

    Craigy Well-Known Member

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    Yep!!

    All these dumb articles are talking about how 86 sales have "tanked" and how it's on its way out. It's not a Corolla.
     
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  14. FXuser

    FXuser Member

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    Declining sales is one thing but the reason I asked is more how Toyota has kind of let the 86 go stale with no indication that they are going to be updating it with new models, new engines, redesign etc. I would hope they don't approach the Supra MKV the same way although I understand they are different segments/class of vehicle. I would just hate to buy a car that gets little support from the mfgr which also tends to mean less aftermarket interest. All of this takes away from owning the car.
     
  15. OP
    OP
    FRS-Man

    FRS-Man Well-Known Member

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    Toyota seems to be totally confused on what direction they want to take with the Scion brand so maybe their inaction with the FR-S is a result of that. One second they want it to be a youth oriented experimental brand, then there's rumors they want to make it a more into-level premium brand... so who knows...

    All I know is that rebadging a Toyota Auris and calling it the "exciting" new Scion iM is accomplishing neither of those goals.
     

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