Why I'm NOT Hyped About The New Toyota Supra

2JZ-No-Sh*t

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my point was it is very difficult to compare those cars with each other especially since the GT-R was only 1 particular model of the Skyline lineup and Honda never offered the NSX with multiple powertrains
Oh ok, got you. Its also hard to compare when we have missing and incomplete numbers. Did a quick Google search and it seems GT-R numbers will variety from site to site. It looks like manufacturers didn't do a good job at keeping track or preserving record of production numbers during the 90's.
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I feel that if the Supra was to go after the GTR and NSX, the price would go thru the roof. By not targeting those cars, this would make the Supra more affordable for the common man. Nevertheless anything less than 400 HP would be a HUGE disappointment. With economy based sport compacts in the 300 HP range, the Supra should not be in that power bracket. It needs a minimum of 400.
Sadly I think we will be looking at around the 350hp range. IMO, the most likely candidate for this car would be BMW's B58. It is officially rated at 335hp, but I believe in independent dynos have it closer to the 350ish mark.
 

2JZ-No-Sh*t

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It isnt all about power. If they can manage to keep the weight down than maybe 350hp would be sufficient. At least for a base entry level model.
 

Supra93

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Not sure what he's on about with the size thing.
Yeah, his comments about the size :doh:

Hes saying since the GT-R 'grew in size' that everyone else must follow suit. I think he doesn't realize even in the 90s the R33 & R34 were both larger than the MKIV. He also stated that the spy shots look small like a Nissan Z (167.5 in). But people than started commenting that it looks to be about the same size as the MKIV at 177.8 in. He than comes back with how much larger cars are today like the 3 series and 911. To that I reply today’s base 911 comes in at 177.1 in and the base C7 Corvette is at 176.9 in.
 
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Just added a poll, curious to see the results.
 

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Poll is interesting.

Should be a $50k-$60k Corvette or 911 competitor, like the FT1 concept was supposed to be. For $50-$60k, I'd rather just buy the Cayman than a Toyota Cayman competitor.

Maybe a $60-70k, old-as-the-hills Nissan GTR competitor. Not something that beats the GTR but competes with it, which should be easy to do given GTR is going on a decade old.

Nobody should be competing with the NSX... NSX isn't exactly selling well.
 

2JZ-No-Sh*t

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From this it doesn't seem like they will be going "GT-R hunting".

He did, however, confirm that the model would remain rear-wheel drive and that Toyota was not seeking to chase Nurburgring lap times, a la Nissan GT-R.

“The GT-R is a car that is clearly focussed on speed, on lap times. We don’t want to chase the same direction,” explained Tada-san.

“Toyota’s philosophy is always [one of] fun. Fun is more important to the driver, and I’d prefer the driver sense that enjoyment than [focus on] lap time.”

http://www.motoring.com.au/toyota-supra-successor-to-remain-rear-wheel-drive-38128/
 

HKz

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Poll is interesting.

Should be a $50k-$60k Corvette or 911 competitor, like the FT1 concept was supposed to be. For $50-$60k, I'd rather just buy the Cayman than a Toyota Cayman competitor.

Maybe a $60-70k, old-as-the-hills Nissan GTR competitor. Not something that beats the GTR but competes with it, which should be easy to do given GTR is going on a decade old.

Nobody should be competing with the NSX... NSX isn't exactly selling well.
spec wise it is still worthy to benchmark one as a next gen powertrain...plus, I'm sure you know sales has no correlation to performance. The $100-200 K performance vehicle market is extremely saturated right now, probably more than ever. Couple that with branding and image being even bigger factors the higher up you go, it makes total sense why someone would choose the models from germany/italy/england. i havent necessarily seen a bad review on the new nsx, the biggest point of contention seems to be aesthetics especially with the interior and the disappointment that it is a 6 figure car.
 

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The new Supra should have been a relatively affordable true performance concept at the 400hp-450hp range and 70,000 EUR price range, with a 3.0L 6 cylinder twin turbo engine.
Below it the new generation of the GT86 with finally a Toyota 2.0l cylinder turbo around 225-250hp and a price tag of around 40,000 EUR.
And finally an entry level sports car (SF-R) with a 1.2L turbo and 140hp and 20,000 EUR tag.
 

HKz

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The new Supra should have been a relatively affordable true performance concept at the 400hp-450hp range and 70,000 EUR price range, with a 3.0L 6 cylinder twin turbo engine.
Below it the new generation of the GT86 with finally a Toyota 2.0l cylinder turbo around 225-250hp and a price tag of around 40,000 EUR.
And finally an entry level sports car (SF-R) with a 1.2L turbo and 140hp and 20,000 EUR tag.
nearly double the current price for the 86? no thanks, the 86 sits at a good spot. I don't want a turbo on an 86, it needs to stay as the classic lightweight NA sports car. While an entry level sports car would be cool, I think it would be a waste of time for Toyota, there are less and less enthusiasts out there and I doubt a very basic entry level sports car would entice such folks. Honda's S660, while badass, hasn't been much of a huge seller in Japan where Kei cars like that used to be very popular. The Supra should fill the void of a turbo 86 with its base powertrain and then go after the Corvette in its top trim.
 
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I think there is a market for a car like the SF-R. One reason why the 86 isn't doing so well in Europe is because of the price tag. I have heard rumors of anywhere from $16k-$20k for the SF-R. I have also seen a number of 86 owners expressing interest in it due to its smaller size and projected weight of 2,160 lbs.
 

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spec wise it is still worthy to benchmark one as a next gen powertrain...plus, I'm sure you know sales has no correlation to performance. The $100-200 K performance vehicle market is extremely saturated right now, probably more than ever. Couple that with branding and image being even bigger factors the higher up you go, it makes total sense why someone would choose the models from germany/italy/england. i havent necessarily seen a bad review on the new nsx, the biggest point of contention seems to be aesthetics especially with the interior and the disappointment that it is a 6 figure car.
I don't even think the powertrain is redeeming. The gist I get from the reviews I've seen is that the journalists are underwhelmed. Very heavy, interior from an Acura MDX, doesn't beat the ancient GTR despite costing practically double. Like you said, a lot of this would be forgivable if it wasn't a 6 figure car, or perhaps barely cracking the $100k mark. And now you can buy all that same "advanced tech" in that same sport hybrid MDX for $50k or whatever.

A lot of people were hailing it as some sort of baby 918, but the 918 formula only works because of the immense power makes you forget about all the weight and 4wd. Take away the power and you're left with something that's overhyped but can't deliver.
 

HKz

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I don't even think the powertrain is redeeming.
The gist I get from the reviews I've seen is that the journalists are underwhelmed. Very heavy, interior from an Acura MDX, doesn't beat the ancient GTR despite costing practically double. Like you said, a lot of this would be forgivable if it wasn't a 6 figure car, or perhaps barely cracking the $100k mark. And now you can buy all that same "advanced tech" in that same sport hybrid MDX for $50k or whatever.

A lot of people were hailing it as some sort of baby 918, but the 918 formula only works because of the immense power makes you forget about all the weight and 4wd. Take away the power and you're left with something that's overhyped but can't deliver.
It is indeed worth the 6 figure price tag...the concerns aren't the fact that the new NSX isn't worth the 6 figures, the complaints are merely folks reminiscing of the 90s...they want high performance vehicles more accessible to the general consumer but people forget that the V6 in the original NSX, while very adequate, was certainly the weakest aspect of the car which allowed Honda to make it more affordable..and the long anticipation probably didn't help either. The interior looks good enough, subjective either way. And sure the chassis is on the heavier end, but it certainly isn't heavier than the R35. Plus, there is no shame in losing to or barely beating an R35. Sure you can complain about how old it is but who cares, what "new" technology would Nissan really want? It was ahead of its time with AWD, TT V6 & a DCT...since its introduction the only big advancement has really been electric/hybrid power.

The NSX looks a lot better than the GTR. However, I don't know if its worth almost double the price...

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/acura/nsx/2017/2017-acura-nsx-vs-nissan-gt-r/

$47 K more ain't almost double...plus, when you're in that tax bracket where you're picking up brand new 6 figure cars, I doubt if getting a "bargain" would cross your mind.
 

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That's a good poll....and if I had a dollar for every time a woman said that to me I could afford a 100k car.
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