Why I'm NOT Hyped About The New Toyota Supra

[johnny_10196]

I don't think it will be anywhere near the $100k mark. The designers said they didn't want it to go into Lexus' territory. I'm assuming they were talking about the LC.

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[upnsmoke]

My estimation, price range will be same as Lexus RC350.

 

[Jesse]

Hey guys, I am a diehard Toyota Fan and just have feelings of how Toyota should have gone about designing and Manufacturing the New Toyota Supra. The Supra was the answer to the GTR in 1993 as it should be today (2018). This will also put it in the same territory as the Porsche 911 GT3.

I might add that I find the collaboration with BMW is really stupid. Toyota you have the capabilities to Design and Manufacture on your own. The excuse of lower RND costs is stupid to me. With the move of Designing the LC500, you have a car that has less recognizability and will sell in much less production numbers than the Supra will. Also this economy will sustain good sales no matter what you put out there, why not experiment a little. Toyota has more money than any other Car Manufacture. This is going to be your Flagship car to steer your whole brand in the future, and your letting BMW do the work. Toyota you disappointed me. (Still a Toyota Fan)

Yes this Toyota Supra they have made will sale way more than the last Production Supra, but much like the 6th Gen Celica you had something amazing and then they came out with the 7th Gen Celica, Non Turbo, Non AWD. Yes they sold way more 7th Gen Celica's than any other generation Celica but it was not worthy of the previous years of the Celica Brand, such as the ST205 GT Four.

I feel the same way about the New Supra, Yes they will sell a lot. Yes there will be many fans of the new Supra, But is it going to carry the Legacy of the MK4 Supra. I say No. This is a list of the things I feel the new Supra should have had.

This list I feel would have nailed it for Toyota and Killed the GTR hype. (I'm not a GTR hater just want to see the rivalry they once had in the 90's)

Make this Car in the Motomachi Plant

Engine - Take Design Cues from the 8AR-FTS (Over Engineer it, it's what you're good at)

• Inline 6 Cylinder Twin Turbo
• Atkinson Cycle
• Otto Cycle
• Twin Scroll Turbo's
• Water to Air Intercooler
• Dry Sump Oiling system
• 625 HP (Competitive to GTR)
• 687 TQ (Similar Torque increase of 10% to the 8AR-FTS)
• 86mm Bore
• 86mm Stroke
• Forged Crank
• Forged Rods
• Forged Pistons
• Titanium Valves and Springs
• Direct Injection
• Cylinder Head Designed by Yamaha
• Compression Ratio 10.5:1
• Turbo Boost Pressure : 20 psi / 1.375 bar

Transmission - Getrag

• Getrag - 6 Speed Dual Clutch
• Getrag - 6 Speed Manual (Aisin Clutch)

Drivetrain - Lexus Design Cues

• RWD
• Differential : RC F Torque Vectoring Differential
• Front Suspension : LC500 Double-Joint Ball Joints Aluminum Control Arms
• Rear Suspension : LC500 Multi-Link
• Rear Steer (LC500)
• 5x114.3 Lug Pattern

Brakes - Advics

• Front : 2-Piece Front Disc with Aluminum Hat
• Rear : 2-Piece Rear Disc with Aluminum Hat
• Front : 340mm x 36mm
• Rear : 310mm x 32mm
• Front Caliper : 6 Piston (Supra Logo)
• Rear Caliper : 4 Piston (Supra Logo)

Tire - Michelin

• Front : 285/35R19 Michelin Pilot Sport 4S
• Rear : 315/35R19 Michelin Pilot Sport 4S

Wheels - Toyota

• Front : 19x11 50mm Offset - Forged
• Rear : 19x12.5 45mm Offset - Forged

Curb Weight

• 3050 lbs / 1385 kg
• Distribution F/R % : 48/52

Dimensions

• Width : 72 Inches / 1828mm
• Length : 176 Inches / 4470mm
• Height : 48 Inches / 1220mm

Specs

• 0-60 : 3.2 sec
• 1/4 Mile : 10.9 sec
• Top Speed : 205mph / 330 kph
• MPG : 18 city / 26 hwy
• Skid Pad, 200-ft. diameter (Lateral G) : 1.09 G

MSRP

• $84,850.00

Outside Design

• Rear Wing : The Supra was Iconic because of its signature rear spoiler
• Side Scoops : Another Iconic Supra Design
• Rear Tail Lights : 4 Round Tail Lights for each side
• Carbon Fiber Hood
• Carbon Fiber Roof
• Carbon Fiber Hatch
• Aluminum Doors

Let me Know what you guys think? Do you think I left something out? Am I asking too much?

Who votes these specs for MK6 Supra?

 

[johnny_10196]

I think a lot of this has already been discussed here.

http://www.supramkv.com/threads/im-not-hyped-about-the-new-toyota-supra-heres-why.609/

The 4 circular taillights look a little dated IMO. I much prefer the modern look of the FT1's taillights. I also think your wish list is unrealistic for that price tag. For everything you listed I think it would have to be somewhere between the LC and LFA in terms of pricing.

 

[Sun Devil]

So Toyota goes from an econo 25K 86 to a GTR/GT3 fighter at 85K? I like your attitude and the specs of your "dream" car ... though.

 

[CSUfiend]

I think the closest thing Toyota will make to those specs that you listed has already been confirmed by some dealerships. It will be called the Lexus LC-F, and it will be ~$100k more than your listed price

I feel what you are saying though I wish it were the case as well.

If they are so concerned with R&D costs, just look in the parts bin and drop the TTV6 and 8 speed auto from Lexus in it. Drop the 2UR-GSE V8 in it and give it an $80k price tag for all I care. Just anything better than a BMW engine and especially one with <400hp.

I wish they spent half as much effort on the Supra as they did with the LC and even the RC

 

[Haros]

I like your effort, but you'll have to understand the Japanese bubble economy in the 90's allowed all sort of crazy cars to come up.

People had lots of money back then, and prices on oil and housing was cheap.
In fact, someone with my engineering experience was getting paid nearly identical then as I am now. That's huge huge money back then.

So with that into perspective, you have to understand lots of people were buying CARS , because they both had the money and SUVs have yet to take hold of the market place.
Mazda was building lots of crazy cars and even had 2 spin off brands. Can you name then? Probably not without looking it up.
Hell, the supra itself was nothing more than a glorified Celica! Every car was seemingly a super car because people were buying them.

Until they weren't.
The market crashed and lots of japanese manufacturers ceased to exist. I bet you can't name a single one, can you?
Mazda had to be bailed out by Ford.
Nissan was done for until Renault saved them.
Mitsubishi empire was over. Did you know they used to make popular electronics? Everyone has a Mitsubishi VCR.

Looking back the bubble collapse happened around 1991 but it hit it's low in 2003. This is why we've seen so many early to mid 90s cars then nothing more.
Combine that with a market shifting towards SUVs and crossovers, which today greatly outsell cars, it's understandable that they need a partner.
Even the ever so popular Focus RS is ending production, the BRZ and 86 have been suffering abysmal sales since after it's first 2 years of release.

No matter how much we want it, the supra is a gamble. The market for it is presently uncertain and that's why they are playing it safe with BMW and trying to absorb the cost. That's why it won't be some crazy GTR competitor, which I might add nearly doubled in price since it's first release.

 

[CSUfiend]

Combine that with a market shifting towards SUVs and crossovers, which today greatly outsell cars, it's understandable that they need a partner.
Even the ever so popular Focus RS is ending production, the BRZ and 86 have been suffering abysmal sales since after it's first 2 years of release.

No matter how much we want it, the supra is a gamble. The market for it is presently uncertain and that's why they are playing it safe with BMW and trying to absorb the cost. That's why it won't be some crazy GTR competitor, which I might add nearly doubled in price since it's first release.

Agreed with everything that you stated. Excellent post.

But don't you think Toyota has taken those risks that you mentioned with Lexus? I feel like a lot of their R&D for none hrlybrid and hydrogen passenger vehicles have actually been geared towards "sporty" cars, but only under the Lexus name.

They could have designed a 2 door based on the Lexus IS, but chose to create a half GS and half IS platform which resulted in the Lexus RC. Lexus was over a decade late to the 2 door entry level luxury coupe game, but they did arrive. And then you had the Lexus LC, which started life as an extravagant concept car that they spent lots of money massaging into not only a production vehicle, but the brand's flagship. Could have easily stuck with the status quo of having a Lexus sedan as the flagship, but chose the flashiness over practicality, even though coupes are becoming extinct.

Even with all of those circumstances, do you think they still could have put out the Supra that all of us want?

 

[Haros]

Agreed with everything that you stated. Excellent post.

But don't you think Toyota has taken those risks that you mentioned with Lexus? I feel like a lot of their R&D for none hrlybrid and hydrogen passenger vehicles have actually been geared towards "sporty" cars, but only under the Lexus name.

They could have designed a 2 door based on the Lexus IS, but chose to create a half GS and half IS platform which resulted in the Lexus RC. Lexus was over a decade late to the 2 door entry level luxury coupe game, but they did arrive. And then you had the Lexus LC, which started life as an extravagant concept car that they spent lots of money massaging into not only a production vehicle, but the brand's flagship. Could have easily stuck with the status quo of having a Lexus sedan as the flagship, but chose the flashiness over practicality, even though coupes are becoming extinct.

Even with all of those circumstances, do you think they still could have put out the Supra that all of us want?

I can't speak of why Lexus made the new LC other than a new flagship to attract buyers.
Most still buy Lexus SUVs. Lexus history itself was a bit special as it was really an American brand, who's cars were sold under the Toyota banner elsewhere.
The supra motor was even sourced from a Lexus first and not a unique motor, so I won't be surprised if that happens again.
Jalopknik posted an article stating that performance models of the Ford focus (the rs) actually out sold the non performance models. So performance cars are still selling, but the numbers overall as much lower.

Maybe Lexus has positioned itself in a way that capatilizes on this with their high end models... but truth be told, I have yet to see any high end Lexus cars on the road, whereas I'll see plenty of Lexus badged langcruisers that cost just the same.

 

[2JZ-No-Sh*t]

Does OP want a shorten reskin LC instead? If so, keep dreaming about that curb weight.

While I am disappointed that the new "Supra" will not be done in house by Toyota. We also have to understand that Akio still has a Toyota board to answer to. He himself has stated just because a CEO wants XZY doesn't mean that it is going to happen. Sadly, the partnership with BMW was probably the only way this project was given the green light.

 

[Supraman]

^ This is what I think happened. Most of those board members at Toyota just care about financial profits and not really anything of a 'halo' appear that would represent the brand. Financially speaking they have been doing great so why waste money on a sports car that is not really going to bring much profit if any.

But I do agree on thoughts that Toyota should have done it all themselves. Now I'm just hoping for a Toyota in house engine at least and a true manual

 

[Craigy]

I would pay $84k for that.

Current rumors are far short of what we were shown in FT1, and the "car" that Toyoda drove in Gran Turismo which caused him to approve it. Ft1 was under 3k lbs, ~500 horsepower, dual clutch, active aero, legitimately fast sportscar to compete with high spec 911, 911 turbo, GTR, Corvette. Not beat, but compete with.

All the recent rumors fall incredibly short of that. Just another 350Z. Hell, for the money, a Z might end up being a better buy than this car.

Seriously, after all this time, the real car should be even better than the concept.

 

[johnny_10196]

I would pay $84k for that.

Current rumors are far short of what we were shown in FT1, and the "car" that Toyoda drove in Gran Turismo which caused him to approve it. Ft1 was under 3k lbs, ~500 horsepower, dual clutch, active aero, legitimately fast sportscar to compete with high spec 911, 911 turbo, GTR, Corvette. Not beat, but compete with.

All the recent rumors fall incredibly short of that. Just another 350Z. Hell, for the money, a Z might end up being a better buy than this car.

Seriously, after all this time, the real car should be even better than the concept.

I'm sure most of us here would, but I think it would cost more than that. The $375k LFA couldn't even meet that curb weight or 0-60 time.

Agree, the rumors of a 400-500hp Z for only $50k sounds like a great buy!

 

[Haros]

I would pay $84k for that.

Current rumors are far short of what we were shown in FT1, and the "car" that Toyoda drove in Gran Turismo which caused him to approve it. Ft1 was under 3k lbs, ~500 horsepower, dual clutch, active aero, legitimately fast sportscar to compete with high spec 911, 911 turbo, GTR, Corvette. Not beat, but compete with.

All the recent rumors fall incredibly short of that. Just another 350Z. Hell, for the money, a Z might end up being a better buy than this car.

Seriously, after all this time, the real car should be even better than the concept.

Well they are, after all, just rumors.
We ultimately have to wait and see unless there is some credible leak on a power plant.

Ultimately if you are willing to spend $84k - a 911 S isn't far off from that and a great back up plan.
I mean really, there are a ton of options at that price point.

 

[Craigy]

I'm sure most of us here would, but I think it would cost more than that. The $375k LFA couldn't even meet that curb weight or 0-60 time.

Agree, the rumors of a 400-500hp Z for only $50k sounds like a great buy!

Corvette has the Z06 for $80k. Ford has the GT350R for $65k. Toyota could absolutely do it, at least the core concepts like engine, transmission, etc.

LFA was not a real car for comparison purposes. It was a designer's wet dream , ultra limited production, custom carbon weave looms, designed and redesigned from scratch over a decade, etc. And after all that, it barely edged out the Nissan GTR which was introduced with a sticker price in the $60s and mid-year increased to $72k. And true cost of a Nissan GTR is not the $110k or whatever MSRP has been jacked up to, you can get new GTRs for $20k off all day long.

So price-wise it's completely doable. Original design parameters for CALTY was a car "in the $50,000 range" and they churned out a light car with dual clutch, active aero and ~500 horsepower. And then yeah the high horsepower Z for $50k further reinforces this, as well as existing cars like the base Corvette.

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