Captain_Kirk
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hahaha, I'm in the background of this lolll
I donāt do free translation. Guff had to vip me around the whole trip at Detroit. lol
Revealed: the future of the new Toyota Supra
Faster versions? Lightweight versions? A roadster? Here's what to expect
The new Toyota Supra isnāt here yet. So far weāve only driven a disguised prototype, and UK deliveries are unlikely to begin before this September. However, that doesnāt mean we donāt want to know what Toyota might have in store for the Supra further down the line. With that in mind we sat down with chief engineer Tetsuya Tada to find out about faster ones, slower ones, manual ones, tuner ones and ones that might look a bit differentā¦
Can we expect some fast Supras?
I asked Tada-San if heād be able to use a BMW M engine in the Supra. Specifically the new 500bhp twin turbo 3.0-litre thatāll soon appear in the new X3 M and X4 M, and next year in the new M3/M4. Cue standard obfuscating answer: āAs we further develop the car I believe that deals can be made and concluded as necessary, and one iconic element of Supra is in-line cylinders and we need to cherish that.ā
This is when you have to read between the lines. The answer, I suspect very strongly, is no. Besides any question of packaging, justification for using that engine would only come if BMW also signed off a new Z4 M Roadster, which it shows no signs of doing. Mās direction seems SUV-fixated at present and the market for roadsters with anything over 350bhp is currently very limited.
So a lightweight one instead?
Yeah, thatās the more likely direction. At Geneva, Toyota showed a GT4 racer (above). Same engine and suspension, less weight. This is a theme Tada-san has already touched on with Top Gear. āAt some point I would like to make a track-limited Supra with less weight,ā he told us a while back. āWeāre already making a racing version so we know if you take out 100kg itās a completely different car ā you donāt even need any more power.ā
This time he expanded on that: āFor GT86 we came up with 100 units of a special version, called GRMN, for Japan only. And in one day we had 3,000 orders. That kind of special version is what we have in mind also for Supra. But this time I hope that customers worldwide can enjoy this. Engines obviously need to get better, the horsepower probably needs to be improved, the suspension or the body balance is something that could also be improved or reviewed.ā
So hereās the guess: The Toyota GR Supra will spawn a limited edition GRMN Supra with a bit more power (BMW produces this engine with up to 382bhp in countries not subject to EU emissions regulations), but perhaps 100kg less weight thanks to lighter wheels, carbon brakes, carbon seats, less soundproofing and so on. A proper halo model for Toyota.
Will there be slower Supras?
Although Toyota hasnāt officially commented, itās well known that plans for an entry-level Supra are well advanced. As Tada-san commented, āthe Supra needs to continue to evolve each yearā, hinting that thereās a plan for a whole model range rather than just this one Ā£52,695 coupe. The entry-level engine will be BMWās single turbo B48 2.0-litre four cylinder motor (pictured above, from a BMW 330i).
Tada-san added: āThe 2.0-litre engine will be lighter, which would improve the balance, so in a way youāve come up with an even better handling of the car. And itās not only the engine that will be lighter, we can make the transmission lighter, so actually itās a considerable difference in the weight ā about 100kg lighter.ā
What we donāt know is how much power the base Supra will get. Itās fitted across the BMW range, from the Mini Cooper S to the BMW 630i and develops anywhere from 181bhp to 255bhp. In the Z4 it comes in two tunes: either 189bhp or 255bhp, giving 0-62mph in either 6.6 or 5.4secs. For simplicity of development itās pretty safe to assume Toyota will follow BMWās lead.
What about a manual gearbox?
So far itās not in the offing. The 3.0-litre straight six is only available with the ZF eight-speed auto. Although BMW does produce that engine with a six-speed manual transmission, the suggestion from Tada-san is that Toyota wonāt follow suit: āThe sports automatic version that [weāre] coming up with now is probably very different from the sports automatic cars that customers have in mind. Itās a great evolution from what they have seen in the past.ā
Then he went on to say, āif they still feel that they need the manual version I hope to hear their feedback and voices after thisā. Enough pestering might just get us a manual, then.
I suspect itāll only be available with the 2.0-litre engine ā as a way of lowering the entry sticker price, and perhaps on the GRMN ā as a way of further separating Supra from Z4. Expect rev-matching software.
A new cabin design?
A point he raised, not me. The Supraās interior, as we all know, bears a very striking resemblance to the Z4ās. The architecture is identical, and the cars are built together on the same Steyr line, in Graz, Austria. In a passing comment, Tada-san said, āmost sports car fans and customers would want evolution of the interior specificationā¦ so thatās what we have in mind in terms of the evolution in the futureā.
This is interesting. Thereās obviously a realisation that lifting so much from BMW is potentially damaging as it separates the Supra from the rest of the Toyota range, especially the GT86 (which Tada-san talks of as an ongoing project). Quite what Toyota can do to disguise the BMW origins ā and indeed whether it would want to, given the difference in perceived quality between the two marques ā remains to be seen.
Surely there'll be lots of tuner support?
Yep. Aftermarket tuning is a big part of Japanese car culture. And Toyota will actively support it. In fact, it already is. āActually, just one week ago, I showed the Supra prototype to tuners in the training plant, so that they can start working on tuning partsā, said Tada.
And yes, heās aware that this will include people fitting the legendarily tuneable 2JZ engine from the fourth generation Supra. That was another 3.0-litre six-cylinder, but with two sequential turbochargers. As standard it had 320bhp, but the engine was so strong it could cope with four figure outputs. Itāll happen again people, and you get the sense from Tada-san that heāll actively encourage it. Behind the scenes at least.
How about a Supra roadster?
āI think targa would be a higher probability or possibility than an open car version,ā says Tada. This is no surprise. Build a roadster and you tread straight on BMWās toes. Do a Targa and you nod back to earlier Supras.
Besides, Tada comments, a full electric roof āwould be heavier, it would disturb the handling. And handling is everythingā.
He went on to say that there are some difficulties with a targa top. āIāve looked at it, and some customers say that itās hard to store the roof and that once itās been removed they donāt ever want to have [to do] it againā¦ and because itās tied to storage.ā
Fair points, but not insurmountable. How about a clever electric mechanism? āThat would be heavier.ā So probably not. But surely a manually removable panel or panels that could be stored in the car would be a viable solution? No comment. It would be lightweight, and wouldnāt reduce the Supraās LFA-beating structural stiffness? Still no comment. I reckon thatās as close as weāll get to a confirmation.