Is a manual transmission in the cards for the new Supra?

Only interested if it comes in manual?


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"Tada explained that the potential for a manual Supra is complicated by the positioning of the 86, which, of course, offers a stick shift. "I don't want to sound too business-y, but I also need to support the 86. Looking at the role of the 86 and the role of the Supra, I want to differentiate, make sure they each have their own identity," he said. "If the Supra had a manual transmission, there's nowhere for the 86 to go."

well, that's a super unfortunate perspective...
Would've thought the $25,000 price difference would be enough to differentiate.




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A70TTR

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Would've thought the $25,000 price difference would be enough to differentiate.
Well, from a global perspective, I guess that would make less sense given the 4cyl price points. Even then though, we're still talking a decent price delta and a non existent factor in North America.
 

The Comedian

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The marketing is way off.

Isn't this a DRIVERS car? People who love and enjoy cars are okay with rowing the gears and having control of the car. It pushes their limits to get better, it's enjoyable and most importantly it provides a bit of freedom away from all the tech and nannies.

I don't care if you can shift .0056 seconds faster than me or your 0-60 is 0.1 seconds faster. I want to have a car I enjoy. Auto is not fun unless you're on a track and getting paid for every micro second you save.

Just offer manual and people will buy it
 

McWicked

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Toyota lumps perspective Supra buyers into one of three groups:

Group 1: Those that actually want an AT, and would buy one even if a MT were available.
Group 2: Those that want a MT, but will grit their teeth and buy an AT if it's the only choice.
Group 3: Those that will only purchase a Supra with a MT.

The annual sales target for the new Supra is low enough that Toyota thinks it can get there with only Group 1 and 2 buyers. Offering a MT would mean raising sales numbers to offset the cost of R&D, and Toyota believes that there aren't enough Group 3 buyers to do that. My heart wants to disagree, but when you look at the fact that less then 1 in 4 new Corvette sales are manuals... I start to wonder.
 

Kleanish

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Toyota lumps perspective Supra buyers into one of three groups:

Group 1: Those that actually want an AT, and would buy one even if a MT were available.
Group 2: Those that want a MT, but will grit their teeth and buy an AT if it's the only choice.
Group 3: Those that will only purchase a Supra with a MT.

The annual sales target for the new Supra is low enough that Toyota thinks it can get there with only Group 1 and 2 buyers. Offering a MT would mean raising sales numbers to offset the cost of R&D, and Toyota believes that there aren't enough Group 3 buyers to do that. My heart wants to disagree, but when you look at the fact that less then 1 in 4 new Corvette sales are manuals... I start to wonder.
It will get more Supras on the road though. And one purpose of this car is to be a halo car. Hell I thought about buying the new corolla hatchback for the time being. Never would have thought that without the Supra.
 

mkivalex

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Exactly. I just dont know ifToyota just expects people will complain but still buy the AT. And like you said not requiring the sales numbers of the MT cars.

I want to buy a car this year. And i dont know if ill end up in Group 2 and just buy it. Or hold off and wait. I really really do want the manual transmission. This is a car I would most likely keep for a long time. If im spending that much i dont think i could make such a compromise.

Although if Toyota is acknowledging the level of want for a manual from day one. I cant see how they couldnt make it.
 

justbake

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I personally believe they are waiting to see what Nissan does with the Z and the VR30. The VR30 is solely automatic and it wasn't until SEMA last October that Nissan brought a 370z concept with a 6MT VR30. If that goes to production, I am certain Toyota will put a manual in the car
 

McWicked

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It will get more Supras on the road though. And one purpose of this car is to be a halo car. Hell I thought about buying the new corolla hatchback for the time being. Never would have thought that without the Supra.
WIll it really though? Referencing the Vette again, they sold 40,689 in 2016, with 9,249 of those equipped with a manual. So the question is, how many of those 9,249 would have walked away entirely if the MT wasn't an option? All of them? Half? Let's say it's half. So if the Corvette was initially offered only with an AT, it could be said that offering a MT would only increase sales by about 10%.

Now Toyota is looking to sell a lot less than 40K Supras annually. I mean an order of magnitude less. I think Toyota feels that there isn't much upside to selling a few hundred more Supras a year. On the other hand, if Toyota brass could be convinced that it would really be a few thousand more sales, they might change their tune.
 

Kleanish

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@McWicked My point was being that more halo cars on the road, the better. It's not as cut and dry as selling corollas or gt86s. These Supras are loud, fast, and good looking mobile advertisements for Toyota.

They may not make a profit on selling manual, but its a further investment into their brand that may help drive sales across the board.

Source: the entire reason the LFA was built.
 

Jabba

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Wow! Does this mean Tada-san reads this forum?!!

Road & Track: Toyota Supra Boss Knows Exactly How Badly You Want a Manual Transmission.
https://www-roadandtrack-com.cdn.am...oyota-supra-manual-transmission-future-plans/
"On one of these enthusiast sites, there's actually a poll going on," he said. There are already thousands of votes in favor of a manual option. "I'm getting the message," he said.
Wow, so Toyota actually knows huh. Makes me wonder, why didn't they pull their focus group from us :D. This actually makes me very optimistic that the GRMN car could have a manual option. Or maybe a GR Sport trim to gauge market interest?

Also, if there was a pyramid of sales of all Toyota products, couldn't the cost of a manual option for the Supra be supported by the large base sales of higher volume cars? Like how could they justify a manual for the new Corolla, but not the Supra?
 

The Comedian

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Toyota lumps perspective Supra buyers into one of three groups:

Group 1: Those that actually want an AT, and would buy one even if a MT were available.
Group 2: Those that want a MT, but will grit their teeth and buy an AT if it's the only choice.
Group 3: Those that will only purchase a Supra with a MT.

The annual sales target for the new Supra is low enough that Toyota thinks it can get there with only Group 1 and 2 buyers. Offering a MT would mean raising sales numbers to offset the cost of R&D, and Toyota believes that there aren't enough Group 3 buyers to do that. My heart wants to disagree, but when you look at the fact that less then 1 in 4 new Corvette sales are manuals... I start to wonder.
While I do agree on these same groups... we can flip this coin for the sake of argument.

How many Sti's (04-14) and Evo's (04-09) did Subaru and Mitsubishi sell when they offered Manual only? If the Supra was sold in manual only, they would still sell the same amount I think. However, sell manual for the first 3-4 years and if sales start to slump, you provide the automatic to boost sales and get everyone else who wanted it but couldn't drive manual to buy. Is it really that hard to come up with this strategy? I don't see many grandmas driving the MKIV... This car is built for car enthusiasts
 

XtremeMaC

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Toyota also needed to be realistic hence I'd assume based on GT86 sales and owner's tendencies, I'm assuming this, but I'd say most people bought it for looks and went with an A/T in US.
On the contrary, enthusiasts, in addition to everything else, factored in the fact that A/T is slower to 62mph by a whole sec and went with M/T.
So, also with Z4 buyers in mind, it makes total sense for Toyota/BWM to put more effort in A/T at this day and age and with limited buyers both will get. Also the 8spd ZF transmission seems to be liked by many and is already in production. So more cost savings, proven reliability (to a point)...
Now, I don't remember where I read it, if it was someone's comment or Tada's comment, but I vaguely remember Tada saying they already developed M/T.
I wish there was some sort of timing on GRMN and a possible M/T version. I'm hoping to get a Supra this year, would really be nice to not be disappointed with new stuff that'll come in ~1 year's time... I wonder what it'll take for Toyota to consider M/T. Low sales? many emails asking for M/T? who knows.
 

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