Is a manual transmission in the cards for the new Supra?

Only interested if it comes in manual?


  • Total voters
    199

A70TTR

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2017
Posts
2,710
Reaction score
9,875
Location
Japan/EU/USA
Car(s)
ST205 GT4, JZA70, JZA70 TT-R, S210 Athlete
Wow, so Toyota actually knows huh. Makes me wonder, why didn't they pull their focus group from us :D. This actually makes me very optimistic that the GRMN car could have a manual option. Or maybe a GR Sport trim to gauge market interest?

Also, if there was a pyramid of sales of all Toyota products, couldn't the cost of a manual option for the Supra be supported by the large base sales of higher volume cars? Like how could they justify a manual for the new Corolla, but not the Supra?
the standard Supra is a GR trim car above the GR Sport trim level as-is. there is only GRMN above the current placement...




Advertisement


 

Turbro

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2018
Posts
244
Reaction score
480
Location
Somewhere USA
Car(s)
94 Supra TT 6 Speed, 91 180sx 5 Speed, 15 FoST, 13 FoST
Toyota lumps perspective Supra buyers into one of three groups:

Group 1: Those that actually want an AT, and would buy one even if a MT were available.
Group 2: Those that want a MT, but will grit their teeth and buy an AT if it's the only choice.
Group 3: Those that will only purchase a Supra with a MT.
Im 100% group 3 and will wait it out, if it never comes, ill get something else.
 

Kaizen

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jim
Joined
Jan 16, 2019
Posts
158
Reaction score
366
Location
Florida
Car(s)
2020 GR Supra
I honestly don't care about HP on this new Supra. Acceleration and fancy specs aren't my cup of tea. Awesome driving feel and connectedness is what I'm after. So a manual transmission is important for that.
 

Islindur

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2018
Posts
227
Reaction score
298
Location
Poland
Car(s)
GT86
Problem is most ppl want autos these days in their sports cars. "True" manual enthuziasts are the minority. On the internet ever1 wants a manual, but in real life when its time to vote with your money, most ppl get 12 way adjustable seats and auto. Most 718, 911 go with PDK (I was looking at used 981S, 95% of the market here are PDK too), BMW M cars with DCT, previous Z4 also mostly auto, I think Alpine was doing a survey if the potential customers want to buy A110 in manual or auto and auto was by far more favorable so they went with it on top of lower weight than manual. If GT86 (pure enthuziast car, isn't it?) had slightly better accelaration in auto then in manual I suspect at least half of them if not more would have been ordered in auto too.
We can blame the actual ppl that are buying sports cars with autos, even when there is a manual option, not the evil company that don't want to put manual in. From the pure financial point of view its probably not profitable enough.
On the other hand, manual for 4cyl Z4 is already there, ready to go and maybe it would create some more positive hype around Toyota as a brand still making "enthuziast" cars.
I'd personally get manual 105% but if there will be no option I'll probably go for auto in the future.
#proudmanual86owner :D
 

mas921

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2017
Posts
249
Reaction score
584
Location
Bahrain
Car(s)
Several RWD's
Maybe he's implying that 197hp 2.0T variant in japan? I really dont see what's the point of that model as a whole. It's a detuned version of the 258hp 2.0T, so why not just have the latter and keep the 86 for 200hp market?

Or

Offer MT exclusively on the 3.0T only. This way manual 2.0T's wont breach the 86's segment.

Heck I would pay more AND would wait more if the MT should be custom ordered. Am definitely a Group 3!!
 

HRTROB

Member
First Name
Rob
Joined
Sep 28, 2018
Posts
5
Reaction score
8
Location
Philippines
Car(s)
E46, GT86, Land Cruiser 80, Land Cruiser 200
Toyota also needed to be realistic hence I'd assume based on GT86 sales and owner's tendencies, I'm assuming this, but I'd say most people bought it for looks and went with an A/T in US.
On the contrary, enthusiasts, in addition to everything else, factored in the fact that A/T is slower to 62mph by a whole sec and went with M/T.
So, also with Z4 buyers in mind, it makes total sense for Toyota/BWM to put more effort in A/T at this day and age and with limited buyers both will get. Also the 8spd ZF transmission seems to be liked by many and is already in production. So more cost savings, proven reliability (to a point)...
Now, I don't remember where I read it, if it was someone's comment or Tada's comment, but I vaguely remember Tada saying they already developed M/T.
I wish there was some sort of timing on GRMN and a possible M/T version. I'm hoping to get a Supra this year, would really be nice to not be disappointed with new stuff that'll come in ~1 year's time... I wonder what it'll take for Toyota to consider M/T. Low sales? many emails asking for M/T? who knows.

Nope, more people actually bought manual FR-S and BRZ.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a6308/whats-really-killing-the-manual-transmisson/
 

XtremeMaC

Well-Known Member
First Name
MaC
Joined
Aug 8, 2018
Posts
833
Reaction score
750
Location
_________ SE Michigan, USA
Car(s)
2013 GT86 _____2020 Supra

SupraFiend

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2017
Posts
574
Reaction score
840
Location
Vancouver
Car(s)
5 Supras currently
....so, whats the third? I thought even the JDM 4cyl had the same autobox the rest of the world is getting. Maybe the 4cyl is getting a smaller, cheaper manual.
 

KahnBB6

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2018
Posts
572
Reaction score
867
Location
Florida
Car(s)
'93 Lexus SC300 5-speed 2JZGTE R154 LSD
You'd be surprised who's on here; they don't read everything of course, but there is a presence. ^



"Tada explained that the potential for a manual Supra is complicated by the positioning of the 86, which, of course, offers a stick shift. "I don't want to sound too business-y, but I also need to support the 86. Looking at the role of the 86 and the role of the Supra, I want to differentiate, make sure they each have their own identity," he said. "If the Supra had a manual transmission, there's nowhere for the 86 to go."

well, that's a super unfortunate perspective...
Okay then, I'll bite.

And I will assume that people working for Toyota will see this and all the comments in this particular thread alone and I'll assume even Moto-san or Tada-san himself might see it or have it forwarded.

I really like the 86. I never agreed with people who disparaged it for basically not being a Supra. It think it's a wonderful, even everyday useful 2+2 rear drive car. I drove it in both a manual and automatic and without question I would only ever consider the manual version. Power-wise it's fine. Not mind-blowing by any means but fine. Good enough at 200hp so long as it's manual and has that Torsen LSD. It costs $25k-$30k. When I desperately needed a new car in 2010 after a totaling accident I was prepared to buy one. It wasn't available yet so I bought something else that was RWD, manual and had potential for turbocharged power under California's strict emission rules for considerably less money (a Lexus SC300 5-speed). The FR-S/GT86/BRZ only came out three years later when I wasn't considering buying any new car.

Now enter the Supra MKV. It's 335hp, has a very torquey 365 ft-lbs... both figures probably underrated slightly and from a 3.0L I-6 turbo. Two-seater only makes it harder to use as a daily but I'd try for sure.

However... if I can get a manual transmission RWD Toyota sports car (and with rear seats) for only $25k, why does paying well over twice as much mean I am penalized with an automatic?

How does the prospect of paying twice as much for an even BETTER chassis and engine that actually has the power and turbocharger that the GT86 does not mean that I must accept the boredom that comes with driving an automatic transmission? This logic makes no sense.

The Supra MKV having no manual transmission option doesn't mean I'll settle for the automatic. I won't. It also doesn't mean I'll just go ho-hum and buy a GT86 (which again is arguably a great sportscar in its own right) simply because I wanted a Supra with a manual.

Right now I'm used to driving that factory 5-speed manual SC300 with a totally rebuilt A80 US/UK/Euro Export-spec 320hp/315 ft-lbs sequential twin turbo 2JZ-GTE engine which is mated to a built/reinforced R154 5-speed manual transmission and a Torsen LSD.

And you know what? I really like the turbocharged power with a manual transmission from the legendary engine that preceded the one in the new MKV.

The way R&D, regulations and electrification are going, any new car I look at going forward is going to be a manual for as long as they are still offered.

And if the otherwise great $50k Supra comes with an automatic-only penalty then as a buyer what I am not going to do is look at a GT86. What I am going to do is reluctantly forego the Supra and start looking at BMW M2 Competition 6-speed M/T's, Mustang 5.0 GT Performance Pack 6-speed M/T's or other turbo manual BMW, etc. I strongly prefer a turbocharger now that I own and regularly experience a 2JZ-GTE as Toyota originally configured it.

And I really like Supras and performance Toyotas.

But with a $50k budget there are other competitors up and down a bit from that figure which DO offer a manual transmission.

So... this new Supra never getting a manual would be a real letdown for me. Because without that type of transmission I'd go to another manufacturer that offers my criteria of 300hp+, turbo, rear drive, LSD and manual gearbox.

I don't care about lap times or reaching 4.1 0-60 in a Supra. I want to have fun with it. I LIKE the extra work involved in using a manual. I like being forced to focus more on how I am operating the car to do it well.

The GT86 is a wonderful car. It also would not be good without a 6-speed manual gearbox. But the same is true of a Supra, which costs twice as much and offers everything else that the GT86 doesn't. Except a manual transmission, the absence of which kills it for me.

There will be plenty of time for no manuals ever again once aggressive electrification hits harder in coming years. But this is right now. This is a window of time where a manual Supra can still exist.

To whoever in Toyota is lurking and reading, please build and sell the GR Supra with a manual. And the later GRMN with a manual.
 
Last edited:

Gatsby

New Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2019
Posts
2
Reaction score
6
Location
SoCal
Car(s)
Schwinn
All of this reminds me so much of the Toybaru twins. Years after it came out there were constant rumors of a faster turbo car coming but it never happened. And all of Tada’s claims that it will be improved over time fell short of expectations.

Yes there were changes, the car got refreshed and got a few “special edition” trims. Subaru has the TS which has mechanical upgrades like brakes and suspension but ultimately what people wanted never happened, more power.

And now Tada is playing the same tune that changes will be made over time and that owners who bought older models should be able to upgrade. That should tell you a MT probably isn’t happening, neither is some esoteric godly GRMN car with more power and a bespoke iron block motor. None of those decisions are financially viable and this car was born out of sacrifice by partnering with BMW to save money. If a faster car does come it’ll be an unrestricted B58 with 380hp. And it wouldn’t have a manual because of Tada’s focus on shift feel. A DCT yeah sure.

One of the biggest give aways for no stick to me was when the leaked designs came out and the weird grab handle to give the illusion of the slingshot cockpit was in the driver’s side. Knowing this cars emiphasis on driving dynamics and experience, a clear obstruction to a shift lever would never have been there otherwise.

I love the design, the price is appropriate and it seems like it’ll drive great and sound great. The B58 will be tunable as most BMW boosted motors have been and the aftermarket will do great things with the platform. I think people should take a moment and think like a bean counter before rationalizing fantasies. End rant.
 

Advertisement











 


Advertisement


Top