Is a manual transmission in the cards for the new Supra?

Only interested if it comes in manual?


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KahnBB6

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Toyota was testing a manual trans, this I know for sure. The last tidbit of information I got from a reputable source was that they stopped testing for technical reasons (i.e., NVH, comfort, weight, etc...). I was also told, that a different differential, axles, and rear subframe needed to be put in from the BMW parts bin. What happened, I don’t know. But let’s see what 2022 brings before we completely rule out a manual trans option.
Thank you for the update, PS!

All of this makes sense: another final drive ratio would be needed, probably the other subframe is the cheapest way to mount that other parts bin differential and the axles would need to be changed to fit the new differential’s different dimensions. Without having to design much more than minor fasteners or bushings from scratch to fit it all for production this sounds very straightforward on the mechanical end.

A little extra NVH is to be expected. Not a big deal.

Here’s hoping they push ahead and just do it at long last before MY2026.





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XtremeMaC

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I think Toyota spent all time and effort on GR Yaris. I hadn't cared or researched the car until few days ago and I'm shocked to see how well it seems to drive, with 4wd, laughable 3 cylinder yet super powerful engine, etc...
 

PerformanceSound

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I think Toyota spent all time and effort on GR Yaris. I hadn't cared or researched the car until few days ago and I'm shocked to see how well it seems to drive, with 4wd, laughable 3 cylinder yet super powerful engine, etc...
Its like Nissan’s Super Turbo of the late 80’s early 90’s. Must be a blast to drive!
 

kaiv

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Toyota was testing a manual trans, this I know for sure. The last tidbit of information I got from a reputable source was that they stopped testing for technical reasons (i.e., NVH, comfort, weight, etc...). I was also told, that a different differential, axles, and rear subframe needed to be put in from the BMW parts bin. What happened, I don’t know. But let’s see what 2022 brings before we completely rule out a manual trans option.
Thank you for the update, PS!

All of this makes sense: another final drive ratio would be needed, probably the other subframe is the cheapest way to mount that other parts bin differential and the axles would need to be changed to fit the new differential’s different dimensions. Without having to design much more than minor fasteners or bushings from scratch to fit it all for production this sounds very straightforward on the mechanical end.

A little extra NVH is to be expected. Not a big deal.

Here’s hoping they push ahead and just do it at long last before MY2026.

I don't know much about the Supra but I'm fairly familiar with BMWs.

The B58 already exists with a 6 speed manual, see F30 340i. Meaning, the (vast majority of) parts required to make this happen already exist. Flywheel, clutch, transmission, final drive etc

RE: differential, axles, rear subframe: My opinion is that if anything needs to be tweaked on the existing Supra it would be perhaps the final drive ratio within the differential to get along with the different gearing of the manual trans. That exists in BMW's part bin and would bolt-up.

As far as the rest of the parts are concerned, historically speaking they are rarely any difference in size and mounting for the diff/subframe/axles across autos and manuals.
A lot of that stuff is easy and straight forward like that for mass production/interchangeability. If anything, the driveshaft could be of a different length (sometimes) due to the size of the trans itself.

In the case of the new G80 M3 posted above, BMW essentially went with "old" previous generation hardware with a unique tailored flywheel to link up to the new engine. Same old clutch and transmission.

Let's be real: If they wanted to offer a manual it would be quite easy for them to. I'm waiting.
 

H2O_Doc

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The whole debate regarding the Supra and auto versus manual forced me to be honest with myself.

My decision was between the Supra and a manual 2015 Z51 (really beautiful car). I kept debating whether or not I was willing to give up the feeling of connectedness that a manual provided.

obviously I went with the Supra (glad for it). And what I found out was that I was kind of full of crap. Once you learn how to really use a modern well built auto and get into the habit of shifting it yourself, it’s really not that much less connected. Yes, you lose the mechanics of clutch operation, but big deal. Not like I’m going to operate a clutch faster than I can scroll through the gears on a ZF8.

I think I was hung up on nostalgia and the car cred that comes with a manny. Because the Supra came only in an automatic and it was the car I wanted, I had to confront that reality. I am happy with the auto.

crazy thing is, I had been driving a B58 with a ZF8 for a couple of years (M240i) but never bothered to use manual mode much. I just didn’t bother.

ah well
 

Islindur

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The whole debate regarding the Supra and auto versus manual forced me to be honest with myself.

My decision was between the Supra and a manual 2015 Z51 (really beautiful car). I kept debating whether or not I was willing to give up the feeling of connectedness that a manual provided.

obviously I went with the Supra (glad for it). And what I found out was that I was kind of full of crap. Once you learn how to really use a modern well built auto and get into the habit of shifting it yourself, it’s really not that much less connected. Yes, you lose the mechanics of clutch operation, but big deal. Not like I’m going to operate a clutch faster than I can scroll through the gears on a ZF8.

I think I was hung up on nostalgia and the car cred that comes with a manny. Because the Supra came only in an automatic and it was the car I wanted, I had to confront that reality. I am happy with the auto.

crazy thing is, I had been driving a B58 with a ZF8 for a couple of years (M240i) but never bothered to use manual mode much. I just didn’t bother.

ah well
I had this too, but it started with my fav car of all time - Ferrari 458. I was saying back then that car would have been perfect IF it had a manual. Then I drove one on the track for some time and... that dual clutch was just perfect. I didnt miss manual 1 bit. But I was tough, thought maybe its a 1 time case.
But in the Supra and 718 it was the same, I dont miss pressing clutch at all (and that is comming from manual 86 owner). My fav mode is full manual mode but using the leaver, like sequential rally box, then paddles (they are 2short stock imo btw) and then full auto.
+there is nothing fun in being stuck in traffic with manual
 

KahnBB6

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I don’t mind traffic with a manual car too much. It’s a bit of a chore sure but once out of it I’m always glad to have the classic experience on the street.

Now on a track or perhaps with cars that have engines which rev so insanely fast that no analog tachometer can accurately keep up with them... I’m pretty sure that in those cases I would not miss a manual transmission.

Some modern performance cars do not fit with a manual transmission while others do.

The Supra is one of those that still does. Also the Z, Mustang, Camaro, GR Yaris, GR86/BRZ, Miata, Veloster N, WRX/STI, M2, M3/4, etc.

I fully acknowledge that modern performance automatics and DCT’s are superior. No question there. I just prefer a traditional manual while it’s still possible to get one.

It won’t matter in just a few years when none of these cars will be able to offer a manual transmission for technical and regulatory reasons and advanced hybrid-electric and full electric drivelines will be the standard of the day. That is coming up in the very near future and I look forward to the good designs that come of it. But that’s why it’s important for Toyota And BMW to get a manual 3.0L edition made sooner rather than later.

Right now it is still possible to offer the option. After the A90 ends production it will not be ever again. The window is now and the clock is ticking.

It took 17 years (21 for the USA and Europe) to bring this car back as a pure gas-turbo model and after this, if there is an A100 series, the driveline and chassis will become VERY different from what we’ve been used to.

I love the car otherwise. I just don’t prefer an automatic in a street driven non-hybrid turbo car.
 

Islindur

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I'm more like no manual doesnt disqualify the car anymore. Like I really like Supra and 8ZF combo. Would I take manual for a 3.0? Maybe yea, since like U said, its a last call.
And for sure I would take it for 2.0. But BMW manuals arent the best in business, Porsche has cool shifters, also new Type R I really enjoyed. So it would have to be a good manual, not random rubbery BMW one.
 

KahnBB6

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I'm more like no manual doesnt disqualify the car anymore. Like I really like Supra and 8ZF combo. Would I take manual for a 3.0? Maybe yea, since like U said, its a last call.
And for sure I would take it for 2.0. But BMW manuals arent the best in business, Porsche has cool shifters, also new Type R I really enjoyed. So it would have to be a good manual, not random rubbery BMW one.
I don’t disagree with you at all on those points. I’ve already been convinced that the ZF8 in the Supra and its programming are among the best available today. It’s a genuinely great sportscar as is. Personally I just like what I like at the end of the day. And with a time crunch on all manual cars these days the ever rarer option has my focus.

But yes, it’s a last call for the type of transmission that a purist tends to prefer. An irrational transmission choice but then again the Supra is an altogether irrational car (in a good way!).

I also agree that Honda still makes some of the best manual shifters around. I don’t expect that Toyota will be able to better the CTR’s shift feel with hardware from the BMW parts bin but I’ll take it if they offer it.

Nonetheless I hear you. I also hope that the last manual offering on any manufacturer’s model would be among their best to go out with a bang.

Aside, if the rare GRMN happens to get a DCT after all I’ll be interested to hear how it and the ZF8 compare with each other.
 

Dannyvandelft

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I don’t disagree with you at all on those points. I’ve already been convinced that the ZF8 in the Supra and its programming are among the best available today. It’s a genuinely great sportscar as is. Personally I just like what I like at the end of the day. And with a time crunch on all manual cars these days the ever rarer option has my focus.

But yes, it’s a last call for the type of transmission that a purist tends to prefer. An irrational transmission choice but then again the Supra is an altogether irrational car (in a good way!).

I also agree that Honda still makes some of the best manual shifters around. I don’t expect that Toyota will be able to better the CTR’s shift feel with hardware from the BMW parts bin but I’ll take it if they offer it.

Nonetheless I hear you. I also hope that the last manual offering on any manufacturer’s model would be among their best to go out with a bang.

Aside, if the rare GRMN happens to get a DCT after all I’ll be interested to hear how it and the ZF8 compare with each other.
Even BMW themselves are stepping away from DCT. The new M3/4 also have ZF8 speeds now. I wouldn't expect a DCT in the GRMN. But, you never know.
 

Islindur

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The purists dont buy manuals in higher performance cars, thats the truth. I lately asked salesman about 718 in manual at Porsche, how it is compared to PDK. He said he never seen 718 with manual sold in this Porsche dealer so he can't help. I can count used M2's with manual with 1 hand around here. Even in 86 last years of production automatic share went up to 50% of all cars sold. That says something.
For high performance car auto is nice, esp when a lot ppl push 450+hp but manual should be in option, just like Porsche does. I like what Porsche does with 718 GT4 in this gen. There is manual for those who want it and now PDK for those who seek ultimate track times.

But, profit is everything I guess... I think the biggest factor in play now is 400z with its manual and lower price.
 

Dannyvandelft

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They put a manual in the Cayman GT4, and everybody complained how the gearing is too long. Then they released the PDK version, and then they said it was perfect.
These are the same people that whined about the Supra being auto only... Goes to show that they're all a bunch of whiney bitches and nothing is EVER good enough.
Want a manual? Buy a Cayman, Civic Type R, C7 Corvette, STI, Miata, GR86/BRZ, whatever. Plenty of choices.
 

Islindur

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They put a manual in the Cayman GT4, and everybody complained how the gearing is too long. Then they released the PDK version, and then they said it was perfect.
These are the same people that whined about the Supra being auto only... Goes to show that they're all a bunch of whiney bitches and nothing is EVER good enough.
Want a manual? Buy a Cayman, Civic Type R, C7 Corvette, STI, Miata, GR86/BRZ, whatever. Plenty of choices.
Coz manual 718 gearing IS to long lol. 2nd goes to 120kph, 3rd to 170, 4th to 220 on the dash. That is riddiculous. Why would I want a manual 718 if I can drive around 20-120 in 2nd only. Manual is supposed to be the fun choice and I cant even use it 2much. I drove 718T on the curvy road, all in 2nd. In comparo Supra's 3rd ends at like 130kph, 4th at 160. That is FUN, short auto ratio. I dont judge the car before I drive it myself but I'm with those whiners on that coz 718 gearing is just tragic. But it is to protect 911.

And Supra auto is super-good :)
 

XtremeMaC

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Even in 86 last years of production automatic share went up to 50% of all cars sold. That says something.
Just want to chime in here because with 86, the AT, (I've never driven the AT, so can't comment on it, I believe it's off one of the Lexus (forgot which) and it's not the best single clutch afaik), but I can tell you that AT 0-60 is 1 second slower than the MT on paper. so, I just wouldn't put this as a good example :rolleyes:
 

Islindur

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Just want to chime in here because with 86, the AT, (I've never driven the AT, so can't comment on it, I believe it's off one of the Lexus (forgot which) and it's not the best single clutch afaik), but I can tell you that AT 0-60 is 1 second slower than the MT on paper. so, I just wouldn't put this as a good example :rolleyes:
It is slower coz it has lower gear ratio than manual. And its Asin box if I remember correctly.
I know its slower, just wanted to show even in what is considered a purist fun car ppl go for auto half of the time, where manual should be like 9:1. This one wasnt speed related ;)
 

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