👣 Official: Toyota Announces Manual Transmission Supra!

[Dannyvandelft]

They put a manual in the Cayman GT4, and everybody complained how the gearing is too long. Then they released the PDK version, and then they said it was perfect.
These are the same people that whined about the Supra being auto only... Goes to show that they're all a bunch of whiney bitches and nothing is EVER good enough.
Want a manual? Buy a Cayman, Civic Type R, C7 Corvette, STI, Miata, GR86/BRZ, whatever. Plenty of choices.

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[Islindur]

They put a manual in the Cayman GT4, and everybody complained how the gearing is too long. Then they released the PDK version, and then they said it was perfect.
These are the same people that whined about the Supra being auto only... Goes to show that they're all a bunch of whiney bitches and nothing is EVER good enough.
Want a manual? Buy a Cayman, Civic Type R, C7 Corvette, STI, Miata, GR86/BRZ, whatever. Plenty of choices.

Coz manual 718 gearing IS to long lol. 2nd goes to 120kph, 3rd to 170, 4th to 220 on the dash. That is riddiculous. Why would I want a manual 718 if I can drive around 20-120 in 2nd only. Manual is supposed to be the fun choice and I cant even use it 2much. I drove 718T on the curvy road, all in 2nd. In comparo Supra's 3rd ends at like 130kph, 4th at 160. That is FUN, short auto ratio. I dont judge the car before I drive it myself but I'm with those whiners on that coz 718 gearing is just tragic. But it is to protect 911.

And Supra auto is super-good

 

[XtremeMaC]

Even in 86 last years of production automatic share went up to 50% of all cars sold. That says something.

Just want to chime in here because with 86, the AT, (I've never driven the AT, so can't comment on it, I believe it's off one of the Lexus (forgot which) and it's not the best single clutch afaik), but I can tell you that AT 0-60 is 1 second slower than the MT on paper. so, I just wouldn't put this as a good example

 

[Islindur]

Just want to chime in here because with 86, the AT, (I've never driven the AT, so can't comment on it, I believe it's off one of the Lexus (forgot which) and it's not the best single clutch afaik), but I can tell you that AT 0-60 is 1 second slower than the MT on paper. so, I just wouldn't put this as a good example

It is slower coz it has lower gear ratio than manual. And its Asin box if I remember correctly.
I know its slower, just wanted to show even in what is considered a purist fun car ppl go for auto half of the time, where manual should be like 9:1. This one wasnt speed related

 

[alan7467]

Coz manual 718 gearing IS to long lol. 2nd goes to 120kph, 3rd to 170, 4th to 220 on the dash. That is riddiculous. Why would I want a manual 718 if I can drive around 20-120 in 2nd only. Manual is supposed to be the fun choice and I cant even use it 2much. I drove 718T on the curvy road, all in 2nd. In comparo Supra's 3rd ends at like 130kph, 4th at 160. That is FUN, short auto ratio. I dont judge the car before I drive it myself but I'm with those whiners on that coz 718 gearing is just tragic. But it is to protect 911.

And Supra auto is super-good

PDK in the GT4 doesn't look to be much better. Still pretty tall gearing IMO...

https://rennlist.com/forums/718-gts...pdk-and-final-gear-ratios-2.html#post16746188

 

[Islindur]

PDK in the GT4 doesn't look to be much better. Still pretty tall gearing IMO...

https://rennlist.com/forums/718-gts...pdk-and-final-gear-ratios-2.html#post16746188

Ye, not much better indeed But still PDK for pure track times will be faster and manual as purist option.
I expect GT4 RS to have better ratios but will see how the ultimate road 718 will perform

 

[Dannyvandelft]

PDK in the GT4 doesn't look to be much better. Still pretty tall gearing IMO...

https://rennlist.com/forums/718-gts...pdk-and-final-gear-ratios-2.html#post16746188

PDK is 6 tenths of a second faster to 60 than the manual. To put it in Supra terms, the manual is slower to 60, the PDK faster ?

 

[kaiv]

I don’t mind traffic with a manual car too much. It’s a bit of a chore sure but once out of it I’m always glad to have the classic experience on the street.

Now on a track or perhaps with cars that have engines which rev so insanely fast that no analog tachometer can accurately keep up with them... I’m pretty sure that in those cases I would not miss a manual transmission.

Some modern performance cars do not fit with a manual transmission while others do.

The Supra is one of those that still does. Also the Z, Mustang, Camaro, GR Yaris, GR86/BRZ, Miata, Veloster N, WRX/STI, M2, M3/4, etc.

I fully acknowledge that modern performance automatics and DCT’s are superior. No question there. I just prefer a traditional manual while it’s still possible to get one.

It won’t matter in just a few years when none of these cars will be able to offer a manual transmission for technical and regulatory reasons and advanced hybrid-electric and full electric drivelines will be the standard of the day. That is coming up in the very near future and I look forward to the good designs that come of it. But that’s why it’s important for Toyota And BMW to get a manual 3.0L edition made sooner rather than later.

Right now it is still possible to offer the option. After the A90 ends production it will not be ever again. The window is now and the clock is ticking.

It took 17 years (21 for the USA and Europe) to bring this car back as a pure gas-turbo model and after this, if there is an A100 series, the driveline and chassis will become VERY different from what we’ve been used to.

I love the car otherwise. I just don’t prefer an automatic in a street driven non-hybrid turbo car.

Couldn't agree more.

Both the manual and the traditional ICE are endangered species. Get them while you still can! One thing for sure is that *if* Toyota does come out with a manual Supra it would certainly be the last of its kind.

I don’t disagree with you at all on those points. I’ve already been convinced that the ZF8 in the Supra and its programming are among the best available today. It’s a genuinely great sportscar as is. Personally I just like what I like at the end of the day. And with a time crunch on all manual cars these days the ever rarer option has my focus.

But yes, it’s a last call for the type of transmission that a purist tends to prefer. An irrational transmission choice but then again the Supra is an altogether irrational car (in a good way!).

I also agree that Honda still makes some of the best manual shifters around. I don’t expect that Toyota will be able to better the CTR’s shift feel with hardware from the BMW parts bin but I’ll take it if they offer it.

Nonetheless I hear you. I also hope that the last manual offering on any manufacturer’s model would be among their best to go out with a bang.

Aside, if the rare GRMN happens to get a DCT after all I’ll be interested to hear how it and the ZF8 compare with each other.

Even BMW themselves are stepping away from DCT. The new M3/4 also have ZF8 speeds now. I wouldn't expect a DCT in the GRMN. But, you never know.

The real reason BMW moved away from the DCT is them needing the ZF8 platform to offer AWD. While the ZF8 is an excellent trans and probably the best all around auto on the market, the DCT is the superior sporty transmission. Sharper and snappier. Especially on downshifts. It's noticeable.

 

[Islindur]

PDK is 6 tenths of a second faster to 60 than the manual. To put it in Supra terms, the manual is slower to 60, the PDK faster ?

3rd gear on manual GT4 goes to 190khp lol. tell me that its not toooooo long. Even worse than non base 718's
I love Supra short gearing, makes it fun and willing to rev ^^

 

[kaiv]

I think I watched a 718 review where they stated that Porsche had admitted to not wanting to invest $ in reworking the trans and changing ratios etc so what you get is what you get.
It's a shame, such lovely feeling manual car with these absurdly long gears.
I believe the aftermarket is/was working on a shorter final drive ratio which would help some but the spacing between each gear would remain unchanged and substantial.

 

[Dannyvandelft]

3rd gear on manual GT4 goes to 190khp lol. tell me that its not toooooo long. Even worse than non base 718's
I love Supra short gearing, makes it fun and willing to rev ^^

8 gears vs 6. That's how they can get those supercar 0-60 times of under 4 seconds. Add in the fact that you don't have to lift off the gas to shift, and it's no surprise a manual is just nowhere near as fast. And anybody that says manually paddle shifting a Supra isn't as engaging or satisfying as rowing a stick, is a damn liar. When you're pushing the Supra, or any proper sports car, and you're banging through those gears, not once will you go "I sure wish I had to push in my left foot in between gears"

 

[kaiv]

I don't think anyone is arguing that the auto supra isn't fast or fun. We just want to be given the manual option

 

[Islindur]

8 gears vs 6. That's how they can get those supercar 0-60 times of under 4 seconds. Add in the fact that you don't have to lift off the gas to shift, and it's no surprise a manual is just nowhere near as fast. And anybody that says manually paddle shifting a Supra isn't as engaging or satisfying as rowing a stick, is a damn liar. When you're pushing the Supra, or any proper sports car, and you're banging through those gears, not once will you go "I sure wish I had to push in my left foot in between gears"

Ye sure, but they could have made 1-5 shorter, what is the reason for 3rd gear to close almost 200kph lol. Complete bullshit ratios.

As for paddles - I dare to say its not as satysfying nor as engaging as the whole manual action. But not once on track I said "I sure wish I had to push in my left foot in between gears" so far
And like kaiv said, its about having an option if we want to.

 

[Dannyvandelft]

Ye sure, but they could have made 1-5 shorter, what is the reason for 3rd gear to close almost 200kph lol. Complete bullshit ratios.

As for paddles - I dare to say its not as satysfying nor as engaging as the whole manual action. But not once on track I said "I sure wish I had to push in my left foot in between gears" so far
And like kaiv said, its about having an option if we want to.

For the 2.0 I'd agree. The 3.0 is fine as is imo.

 

[Sigg]

The only reason they don't change the ratios is because the Cayman would be far superior to the 911, the need to keep charging mega dollars for the 911 and of thr Cayman had fast and short it would really ruin the non turbo 911s. Porsche has plenty of money to rework the gearing. They just don't want to.

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