šŸ‘£ Official: Toyota Announces Manual Transmission Supra!

Only interested if it comes in manual?


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splv

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With Nissanā€™s new 400Z coming soon (which will be available with a manual), Toyota/BMW will grab a manual trans from the BMW parts bin (an M2 manual trans??). 2022 will be a great year for many car makers in terms of sports cars.
One can only hope that Toyota can put two and two together. It will definitely be a hit. Supposedly, the new 400Z will be on a revised Z34 chassis so it's strong point really is offering a MT vs the A90.
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KahnBB6

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With Nissanā€™s new 400Z coming soon (which will be available with a manual), Toyota/BMW will grab a manual trans from the BMW parts bin (an M2 manual trans??). 2022 will be a great year for many car makers in terms of sports cars.
I really hope so. Very disappointing that worldwide outcry for a manual fell on deaf ears (so it has seemed) but once some direct competition comes out for this car that offers a manual they actually get some incentive to finally do it.

Fingers crossed.

Speculation:
As to which manual they'll use... if the B58D bare block has the same starter mounting location as the B58C bare block then the only manual trans from BMW that fits it is one from a European 520D 6-speed M/T. If not then it would possibly use another manual transmission.

If there is some manual variant of the rumored 7-speed DCT coming in the Supra GRMN (sorry, I don't have the link handy where I read this but it is in some thread on these forums) then maybe that's the manual that will be on offer. But who knows, really.

All we know for sure on the BMW side is that the regular 3 and 4 Series will not be getting manual options but that the next M3, M4 and next M2 will be. What manual transmission(s) they will receive and how applicable they could be for the Supra A90 are question marks currently.
 

Islindur

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Eh... every1 wants manual but when they offer one finally (lets say magical 2022) it wont sell. After the initial hype, praise on the internet the interest will die off and after 2 years there will be 80% auto and maybe 20% manuals sold. It's always like this, there is soooo much talk that everyone wants a manual, but when there is a time to put the money on the table and get one to show support, suddenly most go of auto anyway.
I looked at used Caymans - 90% PDK. BMW M2 offers manual, does it sell well? I spoke to 2 guys that sell ///M exclusively, since the release they had 1 manual sold in M2. 1. Not even 1 in M4. When I asked about manual M2 one of them saw it only once (the one he sold) and 2nd 1 didnt encounter at all. GT86? Pure, fun car, going after enthusiasts, manual should crush that 6speed auto, right? At the moment most 86's are sold in AUTO. Sad but true.
I think unfortunately Toyota is aware of this, I bet 3/4 would be sold as auto. Would I buy manual myself? Having great manual in 86, I thought its 100% I want manual in Supra. But having driven Supra for some time.... I'm not so sure anymore. This 8ZF is really good, the auto mode never misses a shift (unlike that tragic 10speed auto in Mustang...), its fast, precise... Maybe could have been more punchy on gear change but thats all. Its gr8 for daily, gr8 for track, gr8 for some fun, gr8 for longer trips. I'd have to think twice what transmission I would chose. To be honest the e-brake bothered me much more than transmission...

I still think they should give manual option anyway, just to generate more hype around the car. Especially with new 400Z comming, that will be talked car because of the quite high hp, manual and supposed lower starting price.
 
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KahnBB6

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All I know is that if they continue to not offer a manual Iā€™ll not only have EAGā€™s 520D manual swap cost to add on but also a considerable amount of lab testing and emissions modification cost through (presumably) G&K Auto in California. And on top of that cost about $11k in CA lab testing fees to certify the new non-official manual configuration which after all that expense will HOPEFULLY conform to current emissions regulations so that I can legally operate and smog a manual Supra A90 just like any other new car. Not to mention... doing all this would void any warranty coverage whatsoever for any part of the vehicle.

That is a lot of work and headache that is far in excess of the emissions legal 2JZ-GTE manual swap I only just completed on my Lexus. I donā€™t really feel like having to do that again.

This is the last Supra generation where a manual is even possible to include as an option. After the A90 gives way to an A100 generation a lot will change.

The Supra is a low volume halo sports car icon for Toyota. They can afford the expense to offer a manual themselves on such a vehicle at the end of the day as a last hurrah to a gas-turbo only manual sportscar and their 86 (thankfully they still offer a manual in the 86 and new Yaris GRMN and Corolla GRMN).

The 400Z finally getting a turbo engine and retaining a manual option even on the reworked existing chassis frankly does make it appealing for one big reason: I wouldnā€™t have to go to all that extra work and expense just to have a manual transmission that I can smog easily (which is exponentially difficult honestly on most cars post 1990ā€™s model years or at least on most cars post 2005 or so that never had a U.S. market manual configuration available officially).

I know all the figures point to a decline of manual sales. I donā€™t care that Camrys no longer offer manuals. But in a Supra that is the last generation that CAN offer a manual before aggressive electrification of any next generation drivetrain takes hold.

It needs to be offered. Hopefully Toyota will find a way before they stop producing the A90 altogether.
 

KahnBB6

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The new Morgan Plus Four which was released about four months ago uses the same BMW B48 255hp engine as in the Supra 2.0L... and with a 6-speed manual gearbox. This review of it has few criticisms and seems to point to the availability of the 6-speed M/T being the main selling point of the four cylinder Morgan over the B58 + ZF8 automatic powered Plus Six other than price.

This seems to be a VERY similar argument for the 2.0L vs 3.0L Supra MKV..... only in this case they actually OFFER the existing parts-bin manual transmission.

 

puzzled

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This is not much of a choice.. I am a MT driver so MT is preferred, but the ZF8AT is nothing like the DSG on VW's and Audi's I have tried. The ZF8AT is actually smart and predictable so on a fast car like the Supra, auto is okay.

So for me the choice would be: MT preferred, but not required.

upload_2020-6-5_8-40-52.png


I've learned to like the AT (on the Supra) for the first time in my life.
 

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Iā€™m still holding out for a manual. I really enjoy rowing gears in sports cars so I hope it comes as I am a buyer that would deposit today if it was announced. Iā€™ll continue to enjoy my mkiv TT manual while I wait but I hope Toyota offers a proper manual
 

s219

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BMW M2 offers manual, does it sell well?
Early on, over 50% were manuals. Even all these years later it's still in the 40-50% range. Slightly different market than Supra (people have to be pretty determined to want an M2) but it gives an example of the take rate for a manual transmission in a serious sports car.

I rarely hear anyone say automatic is better -- for most of the people who choose automatic, it's their only option because they cannot drive manual. Dual clutch is a different story, that can be a legit alternative to a manual.
 

Axix23

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Early on, over 50% were manuals. Even all these years later it's still in the 40-50% range. Slightly different market than Supra (people have to be pretty determined to want an M2) but it gives an example of the take rate for a manual transmission in a serious sports car.

I rarely hear anyone say automatic is better -- for most of the people who choose automatic, it's their only option because they cannot drive manual. Dual clutch is a different story, that can be a legit alternative to a manual.
I like the auto better bc I am tired of driving a manual through Heavy stop/go traffic for years.
 

Marin@MarinTuned

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Early on, over 50% were manuals. Even all these years later it's still in the 40-50% range. Slightly different market than Supra (people have to be pretty determined to want an M2) but it gives an example of the take rate for a manual transmission in a serious sports car.

I rarely hear anyone say automatic is better -- for most of the people who choose automatic, it's their only option because they cannot drive manual. Dual clutch is a different story, that can be a legit alternative to a manual.
the ZF8 in the Supra is comparable to a DCT trans. Go find logs of a PDKs actual full shift time from release to rpm acceleration. Then log the Supra and youā€™ll find some very similar numbers. The ZF8 uses a locked converter. The ZF8 is very similar to the gtr trans in drive feels. Except imo feels smoother off of the line.
 

Islindur

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Early on, over 50% were manuals. Even all these years later it's still in the 40-50% range. Slightly different market than Supra (people have to be pretty determined to want an M2) but it gives an example of the take rate for a manual transmission in a serious sports car.

I rarely hear anyone say automatic is better -- for most of the people who choose automatic, it's their only option because they cannot drive manual. Dual clutch is a different story, that can be a legit alternative to a manual.
I just said what I heared from guys that sell ///M cars since years, thats all. Used market is full of autos here too, manual is rare. I dunno if M2 is different market... its actually simmilar in price. If someone is looking for a sports car here around 75k Euro he is going to cross shop Supra, 718, M2, Mustang, slightly used M4 or C63... anything, maybe even HH like Type R. Its much more fluid than ppl think, I heard various crosshops from guys that sell those cars. Even something like 911 and Lotus Elise...

I think Supra 8ZF is very very good for a non-dual clutch type. After driving some sports cars in this segment I'd say, in feel, its slower than PDK, just a tiny bit slower than BMW DCT, on par with dual-clutch in Alpine A110/S and faster than for example Jag F-Type and 100x better than auto Mustang. Imo very good transmision. And faster on a track, which is a point in my case ;)
But... Give manual option! I'd probably get manual anyway coz in 10 years we all will be driving autos ;)
 

s219

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the ZF8 in the Supra is comparable to a DCT trans. Go find logs of a PDKs actual full shift time from release to rpm acceleration. Then log the Supra and youā€™ll find some very similar numbers. The ZF8 uses a locked converter. The ZF8 is very similar to the gtr trans in drive feels. Except imo feels smoother off of the line.
I have owned three BMWs with the ZF8 transmission including my current M40i. It's good -- the best automatic I know of -- but it's not even in the same league as a serious DCT from BMW or Porsche.
 

KahnBB6

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I canā€™t stop to look it up right now but I thought I read a rumor about BMW or ZF/Getrag designing a new 7-speed DCT transmission for the next M3/M4 which might also spawn a 7-speed manual variant of the same gearbox design (Porsche did something similar with their latest DCT which had a 7-speed manual design derived from it).

Any credence to this rumor?
 

PerformanceSound

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Manuals will make a comeback....more and more younger buyers are looking for manual trans cars. Rumors of the 2021 STI with 400hp+ and a manual transmission at around $42k will be hard to beat. The 400Z will not only be twin turbo, but with a manual trans...and if rumors are true, it will be a better performing and more enjoyable car vs. the Supra. There was this generation gap of buyers who were digital crazy and wanted automatic everything....the "automation generation", but there is a shift coming of buyers who want back to basics. Look at the 4x4 community, the new Bronco will not only have a 7-speed manual transmission, but it will have a crawling gear in the mix....I love it!

My bet is 2022 will be the primo year for the MKV Supra. :thumbsup:
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