Laguna Seca with Yokohama V601 tires

gcmak

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Went back to Laguna!

Car's got some SPL FLCAs and Caster bearings now. Running -2.5 camber F and -2.1 camber R.

Decided to give the V601s a shot - stock sizes on the factory rims. Drove the tires around for ~300 miles before hitting the track - they're like an inbetween PSS/PS4s for NVH and overall steering feel. Not nearly as good in the wet...but overall they are not a $400 crappier set of tires...very competitive and just a solid summer tire.
Comparing the V601 at the track with the PSS, I don't get as much lateral grip but braking/acceleration was on par with the PSS. I felt the V601 compound held up better to more hot laps and didn't chunk or get as greasy - although grip levels do drop with excessive heat (noticed TPMS showed 174F on the front passenger tire).

I didn't beat my PB of 1:43 with a nearly bone stock car (just pads/fluids), but the track conditions were different and as I asked around, very few people were performing their best that day...most of them also citing lower grip levels. Either way I have much to learn and this car continues to be a handful...and I'll take a 1:45!

Best lap:

Code brown lap:

Compilation of driving at 10.5/10ths:


Condition of the tires:
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gcmak

gcmak

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I love these kind of posts. And kudos for keeping the audio so we can hear the engine and tire load.
Thanks for the feedback! I’ll continue sharing - hope it ends up at least helping one person with a future decision.

Sonoma up next in August (the included GR NASA event).
 

1slow_mk5

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What do you use to capture car data?
 
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gcmak

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What do you use to capture car data?
I'll preface what I'm currently using, with, I'd like to have one option where the device(s) work well with each other and generates an output with no effort. The Garmin Catalyst has one end of the spectrum, while there are tons of other options which are data driven in other ways.

I use an iPhone with Harrys Lap Timer (paid).
Paired with XGPS160 and KIWI3 OBD.
The combo of KIWI3, Supra and Harrys does not work correctly - the refresh rates are broken as you can tell in the video and the app does warn me.
I also use a GoPro Hero7 Black - which does have its own GPS and other sensors built-in and sometimes will automatically trigger and sync with Harrys Lap Timer but usually not.

Afterwards, I if all 3 devices haven't worked well together, I'd need to manually sync up the video - not a fun process.

So depending on what you truly want (assuming it's not everything, such as Coaching, video, telemetry, lots of other data parameters etc.), you can focus on getting the one or few devices which are great at doing those things.

The moment a company comes out with a cohesive and friendly solution, they'll make $$$.
 

char

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I am very interested in these tires. I am very unsatisfied with the consistency of the OEM PSS tires. The grip drop dramatically when overheated. They also loss grip(heat cycled?) just after 2 days of track driving even though they have decent amount of tread. And the side walls are too soft. From your pictures it appears the V601 can take much more abuse. Do your v601 tires maintain the same level of grip after a few track days and how many track days do they last?
 
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gcmak

gcmak

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I am very interested in these tires. I am very unsatisfied with the consistency of the OEM PSS tires. The grip drop dramatically when overheated. They also loss grip(heat cycled?) just after 2 days of track driving even though they have decent amount of tread. And the side walls are too soft. From your pictures it appears the V601 can take much more abuse. Do your v601 tires maintain the same level of grip after a few track days and how many track days do they last?
Unfortunately I will not be on track again till the end of August (Sonoma Raceway this time). My PSS also dramatically lost traction after the first track day and it was noticeable even on the street. An autocross afterwards, it was mostly like riding on a hard tire.

Thus far, after the track driving, the V601 definitely took more abuse and I drove them harder for longer each session (actually exceeding thermal limits of my brake pads) and street driving has been fine afterwards - including launching the car. They don't physically feel rock hard like the PSS did either. So in terms of track duty, I think they are more suited for it than the PSS but they're still not a track tire. For the price-tag though, they're worth it.

The sidewalls aren't any harder/softer than the PSS, IMO. This wasn't a complaint I had about the PSS to begin with though - it's something I complain a lot with on the PS4S (haven't tried the new BMW Star PS4S though).
 

char

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Unfortunately I will not be on track again till the end of August (Sonoma Raceway this time). My PSS also dramatically lost traction after the first track day and it was noticeable even on the street. An autocross afterwards, it was mostly like riding on a hard tire.

Thus far, after the track driving, the V601 definitely took more abuse and I drove them harder for longer each session (actually exceeding thermal limits of my brake pads) and street driving has been fine afterwards - including launching the car. They don't physically feel rock hard like the PSS did either. So in terms of track duty, I think they are more suited for it than the PSS but they're still not a track tire. For the price-tag though, they're worth it.

The sidewalls aren't any harder/softer than the PSS, IMO. This wasn't a complaint I had about the PSS to begin with though - it's something I complain a lot with on the PS4S (haven't tried the new BMW Star PS4S though).
I think you are right they are not track tires for sure. But I feel they might be very good candidate as practicing tires like the GT Radial SX2 tires on 86 twins (not super grippy but have lots of feedback and consistency). I hope I could use Hankook rs4 tires on my Supra as I really like their longevity and grip level on race tracks. But they just don't have the correct sizes for our cars.

I saw in your video description that you seems to use CSG Spec CP pads for your Supra. I tried them once at Laguna and they faded in 5 laps. I am quite disappointed with these pads as well (considering its high price tag). I am currently using endless CCRG pads but I haven't had chance to test them at Laguna again. They works fine for Sonoma though.
 
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gcmak

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I think you are right they are not track tires for sure. But I feel they might be very good candidate as practicing tires like the GT Radial SX2 tires on 86 twins (not super grippy but have lots of feedback and consistency). I hope I could use Hankook rs4 tires on my Supra as I really like their longevity and grip level on race tracks. But they just don't have the correct sizes for our cars.

I saw in your video description that you seems to use CSG Spec CP pads for your Supra. I tried them once at Laguna and they faded in 5 laps. I am quite disappointed with these pads as well (considering its high price tag). I am currently using endless CCRG pads but I haven't had chance to test them at Laguna again. They works fine for Sonoma though.
I never had the SX2 on my BRZ, but that does seem to be a closer comparison based on my limited knowledge.

I would also like an endurance tire (versus an A052 time attack tire). We'll have to wait longer, unless you're open to new size setup (which I am personally not looking to do). There are good ones on the market today that just don't come in our sizes but hoping Hankook, Continental, etc. will add sizes this coming year with the growing popularity of the Supra.

I'm not disappointed in the CSG CP pads. David (CSG) and Mike (a90mike) have been extremely clear and helpful about what those pads are and are not. They do attempt and might be the best pad for mixed use - the dusting characteristics, lack of noise, great wear on the rotor, wide temperature range, and pad life are phenomenal and I feel like I got what I paid for. I'm no stranger to compromise pads and these have exceeded my expectations in all regards - I have just found their limits because the V601s could hold up to more hot laps than the PSS (where I had to have cool-off laps, so that helped the brakes too).

I know others who use CSG Pads that were designed for the track like C21/C11 on the Supra and the other pad combos on other cars with amazing success. Consistent braking and pad life are what they are known for - so while you may pay more upfront, there seems to be some level of cost savings/labor reduction over time. As always, YMMV.

Its clear there's more than one option out there - which I am thrilled about. I have no doubt your Endless pads are up to the task too - but you'll find out soon!
 

char

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Thanks for your feedback, I just ordered V601 tires for my Supra. Will see how they perform. I am not intended to change tire sizes as well. I think the overall balance of the car is great (the car feels like a more powerful 86 on race track in its stock form) and changing tire sizes will probably break it.

Good to hear the CSG pads work for you. For me the problem with CSG Spec CP is that they left a lot of deposit on rotors when I was using them and causing serious vibration under braking when I was back from track. I was expecting these pads to fade but brake vibration was something I didn't expect. The brake pedal also became soft after the pads started to fade, which wasn't a good experience for me. Maybe I was just too hard on brakes when I first drove this car on the track and relied too much on the ABS. But for the price tag of these pads, I definitely expect more.

I heard from Neal who work on my 86 track car that C21/C11 combo work much better than CP but right now I just don't really want to throw a lot of money on a brake brand that failed me once. My 86 track car use Carbotech XP8 and it was great with acceptable modulation. I will probably use XP10/XP12 on Supra in case my current endless ccrg pads are not good enough.
 
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gcmak

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Thanks for your feedback, I just ordered V601 tires for my Supra. Will see how they perform. I am not intended to change tire sizes as well. I think the overall balance of the car is great (the car feels like a more powerful 86 on race track in its stock form) and changing tire sizes will probably break it.

Good to hear the CSG pads work for you. For me the problem with CSG Spec CP for me is that they left a lot of deposit on rotors when I was using them and causing serious vibration under braking when I was back from track. I was expecting these pads to fade but brake vibration was something I didn't expect. The brake pedal also became soft after the pads started to fade, which wasn't a good experience for me. Maybe I was just too hard on brakes when I first drove this car on the track and relied too much on the ABS. But for the price tag of these pads, I definitely expect more.

I heard from Neal who work on my 86 track car that C21/C11 combo work much better than CP but right now I just don't really want to throw a lot of money on a brake brand that failed me once. My 86 track car use Carbotech XP8 and it was great with acceptable modulation. I will probably use XP10/XP12 on Supra in case my current endless ccrg pads are not good enough.
Gotcha. We'll have a similar setup then. I like the stagger setup as I already have too much oversteer - I don't need more front-end grip. The playfulness and balance are fine to me and I much rather learn to drive the car better #drivermod.

The CP was not built for someone doing repeatedly fast laps like what maybe you and I are doing (sub 1:45). It sounds like you should have gotten the C21/C11 to start with. The CP should handle full sessions doing 1:50 probably. Cause when I do a sub 1:45 lap, I usually cool off one lap for the PSS tires to recover. But with the V601s this time I was cranking out 1:45 or faster for 4 laps in a row, and thats when I also got the pad smear but I didn't wait for brake fade to happen.

So I also got the pad deposits and nasty vibrations. This can happen with any pad you happen to exceed the thermal limits of. I got rid of most/all of it by doing aggressive pad bedding again. It would also go away if I hit the track again. No damage to the rotor. Alternatively if you got your rotors turned/resurfaced or put on some really aggressive pads for a short period, they would also scrub off the excess pad material.

Now that I am more aware of the thermal limits I can manage things on track and have a good time. I will be upgrading my pads when I step up to an actual 200tw tire. Will also need to move onto SRF brake fluid. From the sounds of it, you'll need the XP12 pads and some good fluid - you're really chasing after it!
 

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I am very interested in these tires. I am very unsatisfied with the consistency of the OEM PSS tires. The grip drop dramatically when overheated. They also loss grip(heat cycled?) just after 2 days of track driving even though they have decent amount of tread. And the side walls are too soft. From your pictures it appears the V601 can take much more abuse. Do your v601 tires maintain the same level of grip after a few track days and how many track days do they last?
Sounds like what you're looking for is Nitto NT01. Get some square 18x10 wheels and put on 275/35/18 NT01. I drove and learned on them for a couple of years with my M3.

Or, try the Conti Extremecontact Force. Haven't tried them, but they should be an RS4-type tire.
 

char

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Sounds like what you're looking for is Nitto NT01. Get some square 18x10 wheels and put on 275/35/18 NT01. I drove and learned on them for a couple of years with my M3.

Or, try the Conti Extremecontact Force. Haven't tried them, but they should be an RS4-type tire.
They don't have OEM sizes. For handling balance reasons, I prefer to stay with factory sizes for now. For NT01, the grip level is close to RE71R, which will definitely overload the factory suspension. Conti Extremecontact Force seems to be 50USD more expensive per tire than RS4. Well if it last longer that may worth it, but unfortunately it does not provide required sizes.

I am not aiming for laptime so extra grip is not necessary. V601 seems to be in a good spot with close to factory grip level but take much more abuse with pretty good feedbacks to the driver. Plus its price is cheaper than its competitors.
 

kyippee

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They don't have OEM sizes. For handling balance reasons, I prefer to stay with factory sizes for now. For NT01, the grip level is close to RE71R, which will definitely overload the factory suspension. Conti Extremecontact Force seems to be 50USD more expensive per tire than RS4. Well if it last longer that may worth it, but unfortunately it does not provide required sizes.

I am not aiming for laptime so extra grip is not necessary. V601 seems to be in a good spot with close to factory grip level but take much more abuse with pretty good feedbacks to the driver. Plus its price is cheaper than its competitors.
I hear you on the constraint you've decided on for tire sizing - fair enough.

FWIW, I do not consider NT01 to be an absolute lap time tire. Instead, I think of it as just fast enough to be fun, and primarily a durability tire. I regularly got 40-50 heatcycles out of a set of NT01s on my M3 when I was learning with them. Because of that longevity and consistent grip throughout its life (which RS4 suck at and V601 probably don't do well at either), I recommended it. If it was lap time I'd be recommending A052, AR-1, RT660, CR-1, R7/A7, DH/DHB, etc... Attached is a decent but not perfect roundup!

Oh - and I heard from my friends that Goodyear's Supercar 3 (not the 3R version) are a decent tire too. Fast enough to be fun and lasts decently long.

205956134_1141683446327252_2807889898195315333_n.jpg
 

char

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I hear you on the constraint you've decided on for tire sizing - fair enough.

FWIW, I do not consider NT01 to be an absolute lap time tire. Instead, I think of it as just fast enough to be fun, and primarily a durability tire. I regularly got 40-50 heatcycles out of a set of NT01s on my M3 when I was learning with them. Because of that longevity and consistent grip throughout its life (which RS4 suck at and V601 probably don't do well at either), I recommended it. If it was lap time I'd be recommending A052, AR-1, RT660, CR-1, R7/A7, DH/DHB, etc... Attached is a decent but not perfect roundup!

Oh - and I heard from my friends that Goodyear's Supercar 3 (not the 3R version) are a decent tire too. Fast enough to be fun and lasts decently long.

205956134_1141683446327252_2807889898195315333_n.jpg
Well NT01 is already a 100TW competition tire. That's not something I would like to put on a non-racecar. I have a few friends use NT01 so I know they are quite capable. My friend who drives a stock power F82 M4 with NT01 and factory suspension can do 1:41 at Laguna, which is fast but still 3-4 secs away from what the setup can actually do. Even with this pace, his NT01 tires can only last 20 heat cycles. He also got suspension damage at Laguna early this year due to front right bumpstop is completely gone under heavy track driving and eventually shock body hit top hat under compression, damaged front right shock body and steering rack. That damage is what I mean NT01 will overload the factory suspension. With NT01's grip level, the car needs stiffer springs and sway bars to avoid hitting bumpstops during compression at each corner. And it will take huge amount of time to tune the suspension by trial and error. Especially on Supra, the rear sway bar replacement require dropping the rear subframe. I don't really want to go through that hassle since I am not using this car for competition.

My problem with OEM PSS is that its grip drops just after 1.5 days of track driving and it chunks easily when overheated (same goes PS4S). And they are much more expensive than competitors. RS4 tires do overheat but it does not loss grip dramatically. And on lighter cars like 86, they last more than 10 track days. But unfortunately, Hankook does not offer the right sizes. I haven't try V601 myself yet, but from OP's video (the 10.5/10 one), they look very forgiving if you make mistakes and that is something 200tw cheater tires like RE71R do not offer. And that is quite useful for learning to drive the car to its grip limit. The tires also didn't chunk even though OP almost drifted for a session. That's good enough for me for now. I will see if they last long enough.
 
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